Every time I read these posts, I see myself. I get triggered, I get stuck, the mind movies loop in my head. I refuse to wear my ring, I locked his up too. I tell him they are defective, served no purpose, plus his has cooties. Learning about the secret porn habit (d-day 2, how clueless am I?) did have an upside: It diluted the power of the ow. Now she's just one more object, one more drug, one more escape. Her vagina has lost its magic. So there.
Snowblind, I find the same. I see myself in many of the posts. In the very early days, reading that others were experiencing the same things made me feel less crazy. And then when I got to the point where I finally realized that I wasn't actually crazy, there was comfort in knowing I had this place to share my feelings with others who "get it". You make a really great point about the power of the OW being diluted. When we realize that most often they were a means to an end, it helps to take away some of the notion that we carry that they were special. My husband told me all kinds of lies which I believe he may have even convinced himself of until the fog cleared. Reality was, much like many others here, that his use of porn created issues. Our marriage wasn't stellar nor was our sex life, but he had his porn to fall back on. So when someone new started at the office and came in regularly dressed like a hooker and begging for the attention she claimed she wasn't receiving at home, he had the perfect opportunity. And the bonus for him was that she behaved like a porn star. Until all of this became clear to me, I truly believed she meant something to him. The real truth is she was an object. He used her and she tolerated it because he showed her attention and complimented her. What a sad way to live.
You're so right, Dandelion. The fog, the porn, the perfect storm. My brain tries to solve it with logic... she must be amazing, right? Totally irresistible? Not even close, but I still want to throw things at the porn posters in the window at Victoria's Secret. I can finally walk by without a complete meltdown. He must have wanted to destroy me, or why in the world would he have done this? H looks at me now and says, "Come back. I'm right here." He's determined to make things right. I make him tell me that he's here because he loves me. If I could tell ow one thing (and I won't) it would be this: "Real women look out for one another." Period. Thank you Elle and all at BWC for looking out for one other, and for me.
Snowblind and Dandelion, The insanity is a huge part of the betrayal. Like Frank Pittman said in my most recent post, the OW isn't usually a prize. She's available. She's a distraction. That's it. But Snowblind, if you find yourself triggered here, then perhaps you need to take a break from it. We're always here if you need support or a question answered.
Dear 1998, It is good that you can share with Alone and offer encouragement. From what you are going through, besides have an asshole husband who lied so good it sounded like the truth, you are getting through each day even though it might not seem like progress it sounds like beautiful music. You are getting yourself together, glad the job is getting you up and out. I was at work but really couldn't focus for a year. Random crying while on site with clients. Look at how strong you are with or without him. Hang in there. Your moment of clarity will come. I know it. Mine took 18 months, I sat on the fence for a long time until I knew what I wanted. Is your husband coming around at all? Is he showing you he has changed? Take care and I send good thoughts your way.
I don't know where else to vent this. I got so triggered last night. My husband had unprotected sex with OW (the last time in May), resulting in her pregnancy and now both of us are presenting symptoms of a possible sexually transmitted infection, a very treatable one if that's what it is, but still. The doctor's advised us not to have unprotected sex until we are both cleared, so last night we went to buy condoms because we feel regular sex is vital to our recovery. My husband was trying to be flirty and joking around about buying condoms, who was going into the store to get them, and wow, I didn't know they sold them at gas stations, etc. I appreciate his effort, but I just wanted to scream at him because if he'd taken condoms more seriously when" it just happened" those couple of times with her, then she wouldn't be pregnant, we probably wouldn't have to worry about sexually transmitted diseases and I wouldn't have to worry about wearing condoms with my husband, the only man I've been with in eight years. UGH. My counselor has recommended that we set a few times a week as "free talk time", to discuss the affair, pregnancy, etc., so I was trying not to say anything and was going to journal it this morning to talk about, but when he touched me last night, I just froze. He asked if it was because I wasn't feeling well or because of him, so I told him everything and just cried. He was super supportive and just held me and kept apologizing, which is what he needs to do. I just feel like some of these hurdles are insurmountable. Just when I started to be able to enjoy sex again and get her out of my head in the bedroom, these symptoms (which to be fair I've probably been ignoring for some time and just now talked to him about) popped up and now this feels like it will last forever. The weird thing is it actually feels like we've bonded some over it, together in a crisis I suppose, but still. First the affair, then the pregnancy, then the possible STD. I refuse to let his actions and his affair destroy me, but some days it feels like this roller coaster is never going to end. And I feel bad, because I know he was truly trying to joke around and connect through laughter and because it triggered me, it had the total opposite effect. I'm sure its discouraging to him as well since he is trying so hard.
Out of the Ashes, It's funny..because where you see a night that was a failure, I see a night in which you were able to express your pain and he was able to hold you in it. That's amazing. And it's those moments that will lead to laughter and mutual compassion. The hurdles are absolutely tough, to be sure. But you're both clearing them.
I'm definitely 'a whole lotta stuck'! And a bit surprised to be feeling this way again after two years. In the past, when I've had a trigger or situation that has caused me to lose ground, I've desperately searched for insight into what I was experiencing and found comfort and hope for further healing - you ladies are amazing! This time I just feel done. I've found several blog posts, comments, passages in books, etc. that are speaking to me right now; but I simply don't feel the energy or motivation to act on anything. And in the grand scheme of things, the event that has left me feeling completely done is miniscule in comparison with the affair. As part of our healing journey, my husband and I read 'For Men Only' and 'For Women Only' by Shaunti Feldhahn. Brilliant books that have been a huge help to me and my husband. In 'For Women Only' Shaunti goes into great detail how men are visual and what that means for them on a daily basis. My husband has a married male friend that frequently texts him jokes, funny photos, etc. A lot of them are definitely less than tasteful, but I just excuse them as 'boys' bathroom' humour. Recently this friend sent a photo of a very attractive young woman seductively clothed and posed. My husband then forwarded this photo to a single male friend as a 'here's one for you..." I lost it. We've had several conversations since about integrity, and men's very visual tendencies, how my husband is specifically, etc. In all fairness to my husband, since the affair, he has been amazing in our healing journey. Doing everything 'right', with sincerity and true love from his heart. But I can't get past the photo... And what it says to me about his integrity. He's since asked his friend to cease sending these texts, but I feel like it's too little too late. Even as I type this, I feel like I'm being petty. But this feeling of being done won't go away. I absolutely can't bring myself to be vulnerable with him. I can't even hold his hand. For our boys' sake, we're doing our best to keep the status quo. If we could separate, I would. But very few people know about the affair, and we want to keep it that way. I'm able to be 'normal' with him, just not intimate on any level. And I have no desire to try. I'm exhausted. Normally at this point, I'd be asking for help, but I don't know if I even want to hear an answer. I guess I must be looking for something if I'm sharing how stuck I am, but I don't feel I have the energy to act on any advice... Cat
Anonymous 5:16 - Sounds to me your right to be concerned. I would consider this seductive girl text playing with fire. Flirting in a way. Ask you husband what would he consider crossing the line? I read where H are more likely to cheat if their friends think it is no big deal. You idea of a boundary and his maybe different. If his friends are flirts with the thought that affairs are no big deal. I might set a few boundaries. At least he didn't delete the text, so it is not a secret type of text. He just needs to know this is a root canal sensitive thing right now, maybe not in the future but right now it is. How can he be so insensitive that he thinks looking at a picture of a young seductive woman doesn't pull you back into "how could you do this to me world ?" At least he set boundaries with his friends so give him some credit for that. Your not being petty just smarter.
Cat, Not petty at all. Your response is making it clear to you that a boundary has been violated. You need to respect that boundary and do exactly what you've done. Make it clear to him that you find that sort of behaviour disrespectful to your marriage and disrespectful to you. (Frankly, it IS disrespectful. What are these guys -- 15?) Take some time too though to figure out if this is a symptom of something larger -- a broader feeling of disrespect for women in general, or a cavalier attitude about flirting, for instance. Use this as a chance to get clearer on what you expect from him as your partner. Personally, I recognize that my husband is going to notice an attractive woman. But I expect him to behave like a gentleman, which includes not passing along photos of women. Especially when lines have been crossed in the past.
There is this article on the NY Times opinion about someone wondering if they should tell the partner about a friends affair. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/magazine/should-i-tell-my-friends-husband-that-shes-having-an-affair.html It made me think how few people understand what it means to be the betrayed. I know that having other's keep secrets from me was one of the deepest traumas of my betrayal. I am sure others here may have a different take, but it makes me wonder where the voices of the betrayed are. Most of the comments fail to take into account how traumatic betrayal is. Most of the experts gloss over the pain. Where can we put our experience out there? I wonder if someone/Elle could compile an anthology of women and men who can share their experiences. Such eloquent voices here.
MBS, Oh my GOD, this stuff drives me nuts. I recently wrote a note to an advice columnist at O Magazine who offered up the advice to a woman that she shouldn't disclose anything because, "maybe they have an agreement" or "maybe she doesn't want to know". Stay tuned. I'm going to post the letter I sent to her as a blog post in the next day or two. Thanks for sending this.
Cat, you're exhausted and you're burned out. And probably depressed, like so many of us here. Is it any wonder you lack the energy to keep trying? We are having to expend more effort than we ever have before to preserve our relationships, at a time when we have the least amount of will and energy to do it. Come on, we're only human. And tired, sad, disillusioned humans at that. Don't push yourself too hard. If you don't feel like "fixing" it right now, don't. Rest and give yourself a break. We've got the holidays coming up, folks. For some of us, the first holiday season since Dday. We've got to smile and plan and cook and shop and be there for our kids, families, and friends. Maybe Elle and some others who have been through it will have some advice on how to deal with that. Right now, my H and I are just taking it day by day. We are both depressed and bitter, and trying to hold things together. Sometimes I'm hopeful. Sometimes I wonder why we are trying. I can't watch a movie or read a book without being triggered. He is becoming secretive again, I think as a reaction to my hyper vigilance, but who knows? We talk and hug and spend time with our kids and make love, but separately we brood. I know the holidays will have a lot of triggers, but I'm hoping there will also be some joy, some hope, some redemption.
Phoenix, I you look through the archives, you will find quite a few posts on surviving the holidays, though I suspect I'll write something again (though I'm in Canada so our Thanksgiving has come and gone). But given what you and your husband are experiencing, I would urge you to carve out some time to just be together rather than brooding separately. Even just a walk after dinner, or a coffee together in the morning or something like that, just to stay connected even when things are tough.
I love the compassion, connection and support shown here! I read the stories and struggles you all have faced and, for many, overcome. My heart breaks with your pain and rejoices in your victories! The biggest area I am struggling with now is the overwhelming sadness I feel. I'm gonna sound like a whiner here... I am @ 20 months since D-Day. You'd think after going through this 3 times with 3 different husbands I would be able to deal with this better. But, dammit!! I truly was happy! And now when a memory comes to mind or I see a picture from before D-Day, instead of just enjoying it, the first thought is, "That was back when I was happy." I have a picture on my phone of our dog taken the morning of D-Day that I texted to H, hours before I found out. That is my border between Then and Now. I look at every photo prior and I can still remember how good I felt then. Oh what I wouldn't give to actually feel that way again. I can have good times now, but I seriously don't know if I can experience joy again. Everything I see and feel now just seems to run through a broken lens. The worst part of going through this is knowing that time will heal, but after almost 2 years you'd think I'd have made some progress. I know there's a hope for things to get better. I just can't see it yet.
Blinders, You're essentially a betrayal veteran with three tours of duty under your belt. And now you're paying the price for all that trauma in the form of overwhelming sadness. I think your response is perfectly normal...but that doesn't mean you want it to last. Have you gone through any therapy to help you process all the pain you've gone through? I think many of us have that "before" and "after" feeling. And 20 months actually isn't all that long in the healing trajectory. But I think what you're describing is feeling stuck in that place. And that's where I think a therapist who acknowledges betrayal is often creating post-trauma symptoms can help you. I hope you'll consider it.
Elle, Thanks for your response. I am very willing to go to counseling. The problem is affording it. It was shortly before the affair when I took a huge pay cut and we had to struggle a bit with 4 teenaged kids between us, one of them in college. We had to buy his books for college and were trying to figure out how. Enter OW...she gave my H the money for his books (out of the goodness of her heart, I'm sure) soon after was when the affair started. Then she started her campaign of belittling me and telling him how worthless I was and he deserved SOOOO much better...I know, I read every text. Told him II looked like a barrel with a pig face and that she wanted to follow us to church and sit behind us and make pig noises. Now, I'm a size 14. I've always been self conscious, so you can just imagine how those words effected me. H and I also run a nonprofit for the homeless. She said if he left her she would ruin our reputation in our community. She even began doing just that one night, typing posts on Facebook just as fast as he could delete them. He begged her to stop but she kept it up. That was the night he said to me that he had to run to our office because he may have left coffee pot on. That was the night he tried to kill himself. A week in hospital and another week off from work. D-Day 2 weeks after that. Then lost my job completely. 2 months searching for another, laid off after 8 weeks. Found my current job that I've been working for 14 months, but it is slightly more than minimum wage and slightly less than full time. So, I guess short story long ;) , there is barely anything left in the budget to pay the bills and eat, let alone counseling. I keep hoping we will catch up with past due stuff and can talk to someone. But I am also afraid it will be too late, too.
Oh Blinders, You have been through such incredible hell. What a horrible toxic person she is. You mentioned that you go to church: Is there a minister or priest with whom you could speak? Many have heard so much and gained insight into such emotional pain that it might support you.
To be honest, we continued going to church for about 6 months after D-Day. Every time I walked into the building and members of the church would greet me and hug me I would burst into tears and cry through the entire service. Since I did not disclose to anyone what was going on I just ended up looking like a crazy woman! Then when I got my current job I worked a lot of Sunday mornings, and when I did have one off I just didn't have the energy or strength to go. I know it would probably be beneficial to go, but it's been a year now. I feel as if I've done a huge injustice to myself and my marriage by not allowing myself to express anger to H in the beginning because my first priority was him because he was seriously in a bad place. I don't have much fear that he will have anything to do with her because of her tortuous behavior towards me for 10 months following D-Day...sending me evil letters every few weeks and even going as far as having some of her friends send me nasty notes because I had blocked her. But, I digress... I didn't really ever get to feel and get answers that I needed early since I focused on his recovery, and maybe that is why now 20 months later I'm obsessed with the pain again. But it seems kinda pointless to dredge it all back up to him now when we seem on the outside to be doing better. (aside from my frustration over total lack of sex...) Idk, maybe I should just accept his friendship and companionship and just go buy more batteries!!
Blinders, It's NOT too late. And, I would argue, not addressing all that pain you're carrying around is just allowing it to fester. There's nothing wrong (and a lot right) with telling your husband that you gave him the space to get to a better place in his life...and now he needs to do you the same service. It will undoubtedly hurt. And be careful about what you ask -- make sure you really want/need the information and are not just pain shopping. And then...talk. You can set a schedule -- half-hour daily for a week. Or two hours on a Saturday, or whatever works. But you need him to hear your pain and you need to hear his story. Re. church: It sounds as if you were among a really supportive compassionate bunch of people. No matter that you were crying. My guess is nobody thought you were crazy. They just realized that you, like so many of us, were going through a tough time. Consider going back...or at least seeking out a priest/pastor with whom to share your pain. It gets awfully heavy carrying the load ourselves.
Dealing with life seems like such a huge effort. I feel like telling people. "I'm struggling with soul crushing betrayal right now; can I call you back?" Or leaving on my voicemail "my life has been sucked into a black hole, please ring back in 6 months". (Sigh).
I hope through this I will be a more compassionate person and be sensitive to those in struggle.
Becky, At first, the priority is triage for your own broken heart and soul. When you're bleeding, you dress the wound. With time, I've no doubt you'll feel a strong sensitivity for those whose pain you know all to well. Be gentle with yourself. Soul-crushing indeed.
I'm feeling "stuck", mired in my bitterness and rage. My H insists that he is still "in love" with the OW, even though he loves me and has chosen to break off with her. I realize it could be a lot worse, but knowing he still has feelings for this...person, whom I find so despicable - it eats me up inside. I never thought I could feel such anger and hate. I know my feelings are understandable. At the same time, I know they are irrational. It's like a poison in my gut. I don't want to hate this much. He says he loves me, he never intended to hurt me, and he deeply regrets the affair. I need to hold on to that, and stop thinking about the skank. I need to stop giving her the power to hurt me. But like a child, my heart keeps crying out: it's not fair! She doesn't DESERVE his love. She's a sneaky, selfish person who broke my heart and destroyed my world. She's mean and heartless, she's not his wife, she hasn't been with him for over 20 years - it's deeply wrong! My heart keeps compiling a case against her, but in the end it doesn't change anything. Life is unfair and things are how they are. And then I start to get angry at him, because she never would have had this power in my life if he had not given it to her. And I swallow my anger because I don't want to wreck the fragile relationship we are trying to rebuild. But the anger is boiling and I don't know what to do with it. I love him, and in many ways I understand what he has done. But I'm realizing that I am still very hurt and angry, and not ready to forgive. Life is dark, everything feels poisoned by his disloyalty and unfaithfulness.
Phoenix I'm so sorry for the pain you are still having to endure! I can't understand to be in love with two people! I choose to call the one with ow was lust! I did have those six months when I felt her feelings were more important than mine! She refused to stop contact. This was when h saw the crazy really come out of her! Mine came out later! My h had to listen to several drunken rages where I spit every foul name I could think of at him! If contact had not stopped when the court order was filed, my bags would have been packed! I have not encountered the same emotional attachment that some here have between their h and his ow. My h said he had feelings for her in the beginning of their relationship but he never felt love. This hurt to the core regardless of how his feelings changed as he knew her longer ! I had such anger and it would just explode. Only after I knew the whole timeline was I able to talk to my h about the hurt anger and resentment feelings I was and still do have sometimes when I trigger! Venting on this blog has helped me contain some of my anger! Hugs for your pain and keep venting here!
Phoenix, I know it is so hard but give yourself time. I was SO angry! Honestly, anger doesn't even describe it. I was filled with rage on a daily basis. If I remember correctly, you are just a few months out. I am just now, at 11 months out from D-Day 1 and 7 months out from D-Day 3, finding myself less angry and more sad. I think these are the phases we have to go through as we grieve this loss. If you can find a way to channel that anger, whether it's writing or doing something physical, that might help. My therapist suggested either throwing clay at a board or breaking plates because I had to do something to get that rage out. I was honestly fearful that I would drive to my husband's office and confront the OW which I knew would absolutely not end well. My solution was a heavy bag in the garage. I would come home, run on the treadmill and then spend about 30 minutes punching away on that bag. And when I knew there was no one around to hear, I said out loud everything I wanted to say directly to her while I was hitting. It was a major release for me. Writing has been too, but I had to do something physical. As far as your H saying he's still "in love" with her, I know that hurts. In between D-Days 1 and 3, my H said a number of things to me that were hurtful and screwed up. I don't know that at that point he honestly knew fantasy from reality. He told me she was his best friend (lie), he "must have loved her on some level" (lie), she's "everything you're not" (lie). I realize now that he was still in shock from having been found out, still in the "fog" of the affair and still being manipulated in some ways. There are no excuses for any of it, but I do recognize now that initially, he saw his two lives crashing down and was desperately trying to do damage control. It took that final D-Day when the full truth came out for him to realize the magnitude of the situation. He made a decision to stay and attempt to repair our marriage. With therapy, lots of conversations and taking a really hard look at the affair, his perspective is very different. I know right now everything seems dark. Give yourself time to go through all those emotions. Sadly, there is no shortcut. But as everyone here says, it does get better. Hugs. I'll be thinking of you.
Phoenix, I am so so sorry for what he's putting you through. I would have a very hard time trying to rebuild a relationship with someone who thought he was "in love" with another woman, no matter how delusional I thought he was. In what context did he tell you this? Is he in any sort of counselling to work through his own stuff? It sounds as if he still believes his nonsense. I think a lot of guys, without therapy to guide them, label what they did "love" because they can't make sense of it any other way. Rather than, "I love her so I'm going to have a relationship with her" it becomes "I had a relationship with her (and risked everything) therefore I must love her." Without being able to really parse out the narrative he was creating ("I'm not appreciated", "Life's short", "What's the point of everything?" etc.), he's left to simplistic answers. In any case...we're here.
Just one question, if he really loved her why did he choose you? My H told me all kinds of stuff he believed to be true about the OW. Then about 22 months out his head came out of his ass and his story changed. Cheaters lie to themselves so much to retain what little bit of integrity they have left even though it is not true. That doesn't make it easy for you. I re-read what answers my husband gave me even a year out. I could see how he was telling me the truth but he wasn't explaining it as clear as he does now. My biggest question is why did you choose me? I eventually got an answer which was believable. His answers wouldn't cut with me. Steam said to me one time "why are you allowing him to blow off your questions?" After that I thought she is right. Since then I never accept those simple answers.
My H is an expert at evading questions. I have to really pin him down sometimes. Lynn, I 'm terribly afraid that if I pin him down on that one, the answer will be: "I chose you because it's easier. We're used to each other and we have kids to raise together. And divorce would tear up our family and break the hearts of our kids and our parents. So..it's easier to stay. And BTW, I really do care about you, feel bad about hurting you, and like having sex with you." I'm not sure why I'm dreading that answer. Haven't I stopped clinging to illusions of love yet? And haven't I admitted to myself that the children are a huge part of why I stay? And yet...I'm reluctant to hear my H confirm that we are not really a love match anymore. We are a convenience - and hey, you still look pretty hot in those thigh-highs - match.
Phoenix, you can only take so much emotional trauma at one time. But you conveyed why you are stuck. Your moment of clarity will come while you are walking In the middle of the road. But know that people who walk in the middle of the road eventually get run over.
Phoenix, I think you're voicing what so many of us feel when we have years or decades of marriage behind us. We want to feel special -- chosen above all others. And well we should. But you're also right in that much of the reasons we stay married come down to so much more than "he's hot." Of course, it's a huge reason why a lot of people cheat. We want that rush of emotion. Long-term relationships simply don't have the thrill of novelty. But ANY relationship settles into the day-to-day. So comparing a new relationship with a long-term one is apples and oranges. The stats for second marriages are more dismal than for first marriages. Especially second marriages that start as affairs. We don't choose affair partners the way we choose marriage partners. We're motivated by different things. That we devalue all those other qualities -- loyalty, kindness, being a good parent, supporting each other through tough times, hard-working, etc. -- simply shows how messed up our culture is. We value sexy. We value youth. We value thrills. None of which, incidentally, last.
Thanks, Theresa! I have mixed feelings; I want her to leave us alone, but I also sort of wish she would act out so that he would stop seeing her as his "damsel in distress". Probably I should just be grateful she is staying away. I need to get to the point, like you, where I can talk to him about my pain and anger without overreacting. Last night I slammed my fist into our headboard because I was so furious, and I was afraid I'd hit HIM if I didn't.
Phoenix I used cardboard boxes to release anger and the mind movies! I just sat and tore it up into small pieces for the recycling box! The sound of paper being torn and the force I used to pull it apart really helped me lose a lot of anger. I also spent a lot of time walking my dog! I still have anger issues so I get my watercolor paints out and paint a beautiful sky to ease my mind back to happy thoughts. I do anything I can to stay busy and occupy my mind. Time really is our friend! My h did say after one of my uglier outburst that he felt as if I were hitting him emotionally and would have preferred I just slapped his jaw! I have come to this place slowly where I use the stop sign at the end of the street to stop thoughts about her/him and this has allowed me to feel less anger. I pray your h learns how the words he chooses to describe his feelings for her cause hurt in your heart beyond description! More hugs sent your way!
Phoenix, I am so sorry. This brings back memories of what I was going through last fall. Thankfully @ 13 months my h sees things totally different. But the absolute bullshit I had to listen to!! He was convinced of her love for him... I remember screaming @ him, trying to convince him that the ONLY person who was acting loving to him was me! If she had loved him, she could've waited for him to break up with me & not let him risk everything for her. A true friend wouldn't have let him risk his kids when he could have had the relationship honestly had he wanted to really leave me. But she had nothing to lose. Total selfishness is not love-- it is lust, whether sex was the draw or the ego-stroking. When I KNEW this, I was so angry. But I couldn't convince him. Realized that wasn't my job. So I ran, shot guns & imagined it was her pathetic face, broke things, ripped up things, wrote scathing letters to him & the ow that I didn't send (although he would hear calmed down versions), and blasted gangster rap in my bedroom ("back off motherf#cker"is still my go-to). I actually think I was at my healthiest angry or hurt. But unfortunately half the time, I bought into the romance & wistful pining & thought maybe he should be with her, maybe it was my fault. This was not helpful to me @ all. I think time with nc & ic (which I insisted on after I found him mooning over her fb page one night 3 months post d-day..he then blocked her) made the difference for him. And maybe the fact that as I saw this for the bullshit it was& gave up trying to change his mind, I started drawing some clear boundaries about what I would listen to from him (no pining) & how long I could be with someone with residual feelings for someone else. It sucks & is hard. We were highschool sweethearts & married @ 18--over 20 years. Ive never been with anyone else. It still hurts so badly. Im thinking of all you ladies as we walk through this hell together.
Queen B, That's a really good point re. drawing boundaries around what you will/won't listen to. Which is why I asked why he was telling Phoenix this. We're not their therapist. And though we're clearly loyal and loving, we shouldn't have to listen to their adolescent drivel about "love" and "soul mates" and blah blah cliche blah.
Queen B, I love that!!!! I blared gangster rap at first too and I'm thinking maybe now that I can't shake this depression phase, I need to go back to it! Thanks for the reminder and the companionship with that, lol, I get the oddest looks blaring that out of the windows of my car :)
My current favorite song is Daughtry's "What We Have Become", which, if you listen to the lyrics, sounds like he's talking about addiction. Very fitting in dealing with my husband's sex addiction. Great song to belt out while driving (people may look at me weird, but I honestly don't care).
I agree about finding an outlet for the anger. I smashed ice on my walkway. It needed to be done anyway. I have a baseball bat that I use to beat up old phone books and catalogues. Screaming and swearing while I do that helps as well. Journaling made a huge difference. I would write in it as if it was a letter to my husband. In it I could call him all the horrible names that would be much harder to take back if I said it to his face.
Theresa, Elle, Dandelion, Queen B - thank you. I feel so alone, and this is such a lifeline for me. I'm a big fan of music therapy; I've used it a lot in the last 2 1/2 months! My go-to angry music is the Violent Femmes, but I will definitely have to check out that rap song, Queen B! Really, Elle and Queen B, I brought it on myself. He had told me early on that he loved her, and the last text I ever saw him send her said, "I love you so much." It is written in words of fire in my brain. I've been reading "Private Lies" by frank Pittman, And the chapter on romance and romantic affairs made so much sense in the context of what we are going through. So I tried to talk to him about the difference between romance and love - to convince him, and myself, that the emotion he felt for her was not in the same category as what we have. He heard me out, and them came back later to reiterate that, no, he had fallen in love with her. He didn't intend to, it started as sympathy, protectiveness, friendship… but he fell in love, just as he vividly remembered falling in love with me the night we met. He said he couldn't ever forget either experience. I then tried to make a case for the difference between "in love" - temporary infatuation - and real love, based on years of shared experiences, joys, problems, and really knowing someone. He conceded the difference, but somewhat reluctantly, and I could tell that there was more on his mind that he was not sharing. At this point, I find myself doubting if I even really know what Love is. He says "I love you" to me all the time, but other comments he makes lead me to feel that he views our relationships primarily in the context of habit, comfort, and friendship. He's certainly sexually attracted to me. He worries about me and checks on me often. Is that love? Shouldn't I be content with that? I know the old relationship is dead, and wasn't really the special bond I thought it was anyway. I guess I am still mourning it, and I know I need to let it go. Lower my expectations. It seems like we have a good shot at building a new relationship. Do I want it? Is it worth it? Will I blow it with my constant depression, anger, and insecurity? Sorry for the rambling. I have no counselor or therapist at the moment, so this is it. I'm analyzing my feelings here. H won't consider IC or MC. Dandelion, I can't believe all that you went through. I am in awe of your strength and endurance. Thank you for reaching out to me, y'all. It means so much right now. I love the suggestions for dealing with anger. I am definitely going to implement them. You make me feel less alone.
How does he show you he loves you? It is easier for guys to show you and at that point it was all believed. He needs a therapist to explain this concept to him. My husband said a therapist was the only person he could talk to that was objective and helped him unravel his mind mess.
You have been on my mind too, Becky! Did you see my response to you above? Our stories do sound very similar. Our OW is 18 years younger than we are. She is in her second bad marriage. She is (supposedly) an abused wife. Back in the beginning, he would say how much he admired her strength, her sweetness, her mothering skills, etc., ad nauseum. Once, he even made the mistake of saying to me that he respected her the way he respected me. He doesn't say things like that anymore. He has learned what pain and rage it rouses in me. I have no objectivity. To me, she is a monster. The pure volume of the rage frightened me at first. I am not used to feeling so violent toward another human being. My husband is convinced that I don't have it in me to hurt a fly, but it freaked him out a tad when I busted on our headboard. Anyway, hearing other stories of the anger, and how it is a natural part of the trauma and the healing, has been helpful to me. Unfortunately, I am not a gardener, but meditation has helped a little. Music helps me a lot too. I am thinking of seeing a therapist, if I can find one that is covered by my insurance. I am also going to talk to my doctor about antidepressants. I really didn't want to go that route, but my mood swings are scaring me, and I am a mom and a teacher. I've got to get a handle on this. I really identify with what you say about not sharing all of your feelings with your husband. I've had a rough couple of days, and I've said practically nothing to him about it. I just can't decide if it's a good idea. Will it ruin the progress we are making? What if it exacerbates his own depression? And what can he really do about it anyway? I'm thinking of hitting him with some big questions tonight, though. Questions about what love and marriage really mean to him at this point. Because I really don't know what they mean to me anymore. And I have to get my head around it, so that I can proceed with my life and decide what to teach my girls. By the grace of God, I have a week's vacation coming up. It's a real blessing because I am having a very hard time focusing at work. Of course I will be busy with house cleaning, and preparing for Thanksgiving. But I'm also going to try to get some exercise, and maybe even go to a gym. And when I do, I will do it in your honor, yoga girl! 😀 We are NOT alone. Hugs, Becky. Thank you!
To my husband, I lived through several years of the after-effect of my dads adultery with my moms best friend. As a child my life totally changed. No one talked about it. My dad stayed in the bars late until I after I had gone to bed. This was the same man who tucked me in every night.
My dad would regularly get drunk during the affair and pinned me up against the hall. After that I avoided him. This was the same man who took us camping and fishing.
My mom stayed in bed for hours smoking cigarettes, listening to the days of wine and roses while crying her eyes out. Neighbors shunned us and didn't want us to play with their children, the OW lived one street up. This was the same woman who was a Brownie leader and assistant soft ball couch even though she was disabled.
We moved to a 2 bedroom with my mom who was gone regularly for hours at a time. Can you imagine selling the house I grew up in, neighborhood friends, school? My entire life changes. I'm left to run wild. My dad doesn't want me anymore unless it is convenient for him and not on a regular basis. He dropped us off at Grandma's house.
The OW had 5 kids so my dads money went to her. Our financial resources took a dive. No extra money for clothes, beauty products or movies.
I was used as a babysitter frequently tied down. My mom randomly cried without any warning.
I don't think I'm ever going to get over your adultery. You can see why I easily trigger, cry, emotionally fragile, unsure, change is hard, and have self-esteem that takes a nose dive frequently. One day I'm living in the Little House on the Prairie or Walton's and the next day I am in Gone Girl or Home Alone.
You can see why this brought me to my knees. I'm still hurting from my dad and your adultery. I ask for your help and understanding that adultery in general is a fabric already weaved into my fabric. You just lighted my dress on fire. I can't seem to put the fire out it out. I hope you can love me even though I'm broken in many ways. I hope if I had shared this with you, you might have made a different choice. You might have thought this will send her over the edge so I can't do this to our marriage. But you didn't know because I didn't share this shame with you. My handsome big man on campus might think he made a mistake and he better get out while he can. This chick is seriously messed up. But the truth eventually comes out. I couldn't make love with another man to meet my needs. Not for you but myself.
Lynn, what a heartbreaking letter. I also had a parent who betrayed a parent. The circumstances were very different - and not as bad - but it was traumatizing. And my H knew - he knew how I struggled with it, how it scarred me. And he chose to do the same damn thing. It does stir up the old feelings. But you're not messed up - he is. I'm so sorry you have to deal with the echoes of the past as well as the pain of the present. Hugs to you, may you find some peace!
You have been with me all day, you are not alone there are so many of us that know your struggle. I really share so many of your feelings. My Hs affair was also very emotional and I had to hear a lot of crap about he cares for this girl, she is so amazing ect.... I say girl because she is about 20 years younger than us. Also because she has had a very painful life ther is the whole damsel in distress thing going on. I am sorry what she has suffered but - ugg. I also had a very angry stage (pretty scary) but for me it passed with meditation and gardening. I think the advice of a heavy bag is great if your athletic. I say feel that anger and use it demand respect and establish boundaries, but also know the hurt and fear that lies beneath.
Also understand hating - really hating - The OW. That is exactly how I feel right now!!! It is pretty bad and feels like poison that I want to stop taking, but somehow i can't so far.... I really don't want to hate a person like this.... But right now it seems I can't help it.
I have also worried at times that my anger, despair, hurt, needs, will drive my H away because he is/was also hurting and at times couldn't take the full force of my feelings. As hard as it is sometimes I just wouldn't take my feelings thoughts, fights to him. I new it was cause more damage to our relationship. Although there were plenty of times when I should have not engaged with him and did and had terrible fights. I found a journal helped a lot to just get it out at times I did not think it safe to talk with my h.
I am also worried that you don't have a counselor. I would be lost without professional help. Elle has also posted before about Infedelity Counseling Network- they are peer counselor sand you might think of calling them.
Hang in there - you are never alone. Lots of love and support Becky.
Phoenix, Becky makes a good point re. Infidelity Counselling Network. Free counselling from women who've been through this...and have been trained to help others. The number is in the right hand column on this site.
Becky, I have continually struggled with that feeling of hating the OW. It's definitely more controlled than it was in the beginning, not so much anger, but sadness. Ironically, while I'm less angry now, I think the more I have learned about the affair, the more hatred I have. Initially, I really felt like my h had manipulated her and I hated her simply for being a whore. The more I learned, I realized that she had, in many ways, manipulated him too. This shouldn't have come as a surprise to me as they were both cheating on their spouses which requires lying and being selfish. Manipulation just falls right in with the rest. So then I found myself hating her for being a whore, for being a liar, and for the complete lack of regard she showed for me and my family. As much as it hurts, I have to acknowledge that my husband did the same things. When I forgave my husband I felt an obligation to forgive her, as well. It tortured me when I just couldn't find it within myself to do so. Our therapist encouraged me to ease up on this drive to forgive and just try to get to a point where she simply doesn't matter to me. Someone here mentioned forgiving the OW for being so screwed up if you're unable to forgive their actions. I think that is in line with what Janis Abrahm Spring talks about in How Can I Forgive You? I'll confess, I'm just not there myself. I have been through hell. I've raged, sobbed, and nearly fallen apart. I've watched my always strong husband break down and sob in my arms from the weight of what he has done, heard him say he hates himself and struggles to look at himself in the mirror. She, on the other hand, seems not to have suffered any consequences. She continued to work in the same office for about 4 months before finally quitting and, to the best of my knowledge, moving a few hours away. It's likely her husband was reassigned. If she is suffering, it's not visible to me. As hateful as it sounds, I wish it was. I would like to see her in the same pain that I am. In the meantime, I get some satisfaction from knowing that even if she isn't hurt by what she's done, she lives in constant fear of me letting out her dirty little secret. Maybe one day I won't be so spiteful, but I'm just not there. I try not to let it eat away at me and to just accept that I've been hurt, more accurately devastated, and need to work through the full range of emotions. We're headed back to our therapist on Monday. I want to talk about this issue and hopefully head off a full meltdown on Thanksgiving since I know it will be a tough day for me. I'm always grateful to have this place to share my feelings.
Hi Dandelion, I totally agree with your therapist. I think it is really sound advice." Our therapist encouraged me to ease up on this drive to forgive and just try to get to a point where she simply doesn't matter to me." That is where I am. I don't have the energy to try to forgive her. I tried in the past and it only made me feel angry. I felt like you for a long time and I could have written the exact same thing. Really the only one who needs to forgive her is her. Now she means nothing to me and she was nothing more than a pile of coke, a bottle of tequila, a porn mag...pick your poison...to my husband. I also struggled with her not suffering any consequences. She had a fiance who she actually left because she thought my husband was going to leave me and move in with her. These poor women. They are living in their own hell. They have to live with themselves. She has moved back in with her fiance(who she told my husband she never loved and who is oblivious to the affair) and will live an empty unfulfilling marriage. I on the other hand will have a beautiful marriage full of passion and love(as it always has been). That is enough for me. You don't need to forgive her anything. You don't need to give her anything at all. Forgiveness is just another tool in our toolbox. Sometimes other tools are more suited, like apathy. I don't even bring forgiveness into my dialogue, like " I need to forgive my husband". I only need to love him.To "forgive" puts pressure to get somewhere, to a place of forgiveness. You can't force it or make it happen. It will happen organically. Just love yourself, be kind to yourself, love your husband(he seems to be truly sorry and want to work it out with you) It helped me to find gratitude for that, to find gratitude that we are still together, still in love, that he didn't leave me for her or get her pregnant. I know it sounds screwed up and it took me a long time to get there, I would scream in my head, "why should I be grateful that he didn't leave me for her, he shouldn't have been with her at all"...I realized that to heal I had to find my own path. I know it is hard, but it is really not helpful to give her anymore of your precious time or energy. Your husband isn't, why are you? I asked myself this question and had to look really deeply and I realized it was because I felt like I was less than, not enough and that was why I was so angry. The affair made me feel unworthy, that"s why I was so angry and felt so much hate for her. She made me question my self worth, she was better than me, prettier than me, etc etc, you know the dialogue...When I came to realize that it wasn't about me, or her, but about him and HIS lack of self worth I was able to make some space between me and her and now, finally let her go. Forgiveness has not been a part of it. And I don't feel bad about it either. You don't have to forgive her. Apathy works just as well. I hope that helps.
Dandelion, I am also incredibly spiteful. I hate her so much that it brings me to tears. Why should she get to destroy my life and walk off scot-free, with no reckoning, and with my husband's respect and approval? I want her to suffer as I am suffering. But this is not like me. I'm not usually like this at all. I've always believed in the power of love and forgiveness. I tell myself these feelings have got to fade.
Dandilion and Phoenix I guess I had to let the ow go as an obsession because I truly believe in Karma. I could not would not ever want to be anywhere near the Karma that I thought I wished on that wretched soul. When I watched what happened to her as a result of her poor choices, I was finally able to let go of what I thought she stole from me which only really amounted to a small amount of time out of the true timespan of my relationship with my h. We now realize that now forever more is longer that the small amount of time they decided to check out of the real world compared to what is left till when we become ashes, no longer matters to either one of us! We are so now refocused on us, what began our walk together and where we want that walk to end.... We just think that these two imperfect souls refuse to give up on each other! So we get up and face a new day...together, for better or worse! No matter if we have seem worse! Hugs for strength and hope!
You have such a great way of looking at it, Theresa! Every day is a new one and an opportunity to do better than I did yesterday. At least that's how I see it. I'm trying to focus more on the progress we've made than what's in our past. Hugs!
What I tell myself is that the OW stole enough from me. I refuse to let her steal any more of my life. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not always successful, but I've found this helps. See your refusal to dwell on her in anger as a sign of strength, not weakness. You are taking back your power!
Hi Ladies. Thanks so much for reaching out we all know how much it means to not feel alone.
I wish I could take all of my horrible feelings and dump it on her!!!!! I have also always be loved in forgiveness and having a generous spirt ... But this may be too much. Because man, I am really really hating her!!! Plus I still have a long way to go with forgiving my H much less her. I just don't want her to consume my thoughts so much and feel like a poison in my relationship.
Becky, Let yourself hate her. Just don't let it consume you. It helped me to realize that, no matter how horrible I felt, I would rather be me than her. And, as Oprah used to say, we know the karma bus is coming. But unfortunately we don't always get to be around when it hits.
Me too, Phoenix! I have to believe it will come in time. Everything I read says you have to try not to focus on her, but it's hard. I wish I had copied something I read earlier today about this, which basically said fixating on her and what she did will not help you to heal. It was written in a blog by a betrayed wife who did a lot of the things I truly wanted to do but never did. She now says she has regrets for some of it and that it didn't help the healing process. I will try to find it and post it later. I try to remember these things for the times when I feel the anger coming. And it means so much more to me when it comes from someone who has walked this road. I know my personality well enough to know that' "revenge" might bring me a brief amount of satisfaction but it would likely be short-lived. It's not in my nature to seek to hurt people.
Found it... It's on A Year After the Affair. She says.. "But, I do want to reiterate why you should let her go...not just because she can't help you understand why your husband cheated. She never will. She has no clue. Not just because you can never hurt her the way she hurt you. You know you can't. The pain betrayed spouses feel is distinct and specific to each of us. Let her go because if you don't, you are injuring yourself forever. You're losing pieces of yourself that you won't notice until it's too late, until they are irretrievable." Definitely gives me a lot to think about.
Exactly, Dandelion. Exactly. I have entertained revenge fantasies, but I know they would not really bring satisfaction. They would only bring more bitter regret. We are stronger, kinder people than the OW - that's why we're NOT the OW. These feelings will pas, they will pass, they will pass....!
I still want the OW to suffer for all eternity alone and in pain. It's been 9 months since d-day. I realize now that that is a fairly short period of time. I've quite mentioning my triggers to H because he doesn't want to think about that time period. He was very depressed and she is not a nice person. They fought a lot and she belittled and threatened him. (of course this was the "relationship" after the lusty part wasn't shiny anymore.) I still can't get OW out of my mind, but what I read here has helped me so much. What I want to say is that I have never contacted OW, nor done anything to her at all; until recently, writing some ugly things about OW where I knew someone who knows her might see them. It's actually unlikely that will happen, but I felt petty and small for doing that. As much as I want to hurt her... I'm just not the kind of person who finds pleasure in acting that way. I love the Dhammapada and it says that what you do to someone else, you do to yourself and that your mischief will turn on you. I'm a good person and this situation isn't going to change that and I can hold my head up that my behavior is on par with the person I am.
I don't want to have Thanksgiving or Christmas this year. There is not one damn special thing about any holiday. He had her for 18 years ..... I hate them both. WTF - we are almost 5 months out. Please can we just fast forward to next year?
I was right where you are last year. I barely made it through last holiday season. Christmas eve I was on the couch sobbing my heart out. I barely got my son's presents wrapped before the day, didn't even do any baking or anything that I normally do. Usually I love Christmas so much, but last year it just felt like a torture. My husband kept asking me what I wanted. I told him I wanted to go to sleep for a year and wake up feeling better and past this.
Lots of love to you. I know how hard this is. But you will survive. This is coming from someone who didn't think she would!
Anonymous 1998, You need support through this. What can you do to help you through? Anyone you can count on to give you the space to disappear and cry, if necessary? Can you build in an escape and go for a walk when you just need to get away. Please remember, this is just a day on the calendar that our culture has arbitrarily decided to celebrate (ask the American Indians how grateful they feel about this day!). If you feel the need to celebrate for your kids or family, then just do it for them. Trust that the day will come when you're through this pain. For now, acknowledge it...
Hearing such pain from so many, so much work to do to understand, accept, forgive, retrain the brain not to react to triggers, to rebuild self-esteem and to re-find loving feelings for our spouse. Is it just too much to ask of ourselves. Yes they were messed up or depressed or addicted or had family of origin issues but they did something terrible and it had terrible long-term consequences. It is so disillusioning and despite best efforts, despite not wanting to be cynical or feeling a victim, I am cynical, distrustful, broken, unable. Wider family pressures don't help with my depression but I don't know if I have it in me to come back from this and live happily with him by my side. I don't want to break up the family but I resent all the years that have been stolen, the effect on my sanity and creative endeavors I'd hoped to make a career. Real damage has been done, piece of mind has been stolen from me and my children. Has anyone just walked away from it all in the end not being able to come to terms with it even when the CS did his best?
Fragments, Yes, there are absolutely women who've walked away. My friend is one of them. Her husband was full of remorse. She honestly believed he wouldn't cheat again. But she just didn't have it in her to keep on trying. Today she's remarried to someone else and he ended up marrying the OW who's now her son's stepmother. She's happy. So am I. Different responses but we both wound up with what we wanted. This is your choice to make. As long as you make it with a clear head and heart, you'll be fine. You don't owe anybody a second chance, except yourself.
Anon 1998, my heart hurts for you. 5 months is a tiny amount of time to process a betrayal of that scale. I wish you COULD fast-forward. I am dreading the holidays too. I am thinking that I am going to try to do something new and special for myself. I don't know what it is yet. I hope you find something...anything ...that will give you some joy. Hugs, sister!!!
I am 5 and 1/2 months past d day. It has been super rough as you know, but about a month or so ago I could feel a shift towards improvement. I think part of that was the result of exhaustion. We knew we wanted to work on our relationship and wanted to stop hurting each other so much. Also for the fact is that in the 21st century there are so so so many ways to be dishonest and cover up stuff. So there came a point that I needed to stop making myself so crazy!! I needed to either take steps to believe in our relationship and efforts and love and commitment my H would profess. It has been hard and of course I still have some serious boundaries and trigger things ..... But I can't be with him ALL the time. So some trust and faith has to come back into the relationship- even though it is so scary and feels very risky. But my H has done a lot to make me willing to face that fear. We still have a very long way to go and so pretty hard issues to work on. I hope your H is helping you on this path because you deserve his help and support.
I have also felt crazy plenty of times. But we are not. We are hurt and feel like we can't even trust our own judgment.
I have always liked exercise and would work out about 4 days a week - but since d day I have not been to the gym even once!! I have been so mentally and physically beat. I'm hoping yoga will be a way to get back on track. We'll see how it goes.
Remember to be gentle with ourselves- sometimes we are so hard on ourselves. Take care. With love. Becky.
Hello ladies, as I sit here weeping and feeling I want to scratch my skin off, I am about 2.5 weeks past D Day. My husband's friendship with a woman in his industry turned into a 5 month long (from what I know) emotional affair. I saw an email 5 days ago saying he loves her (from 2 weeks ago), and I cannot explain how it has leveled me. We have not had a good marriage for a few years, financial worries,?kids, etc., but instead of telling me he was ready to leave, he started with her. Then he got caught via cell phone records . The worst of this is he told me tonight he doesn't think he wants to work on the marriage because he can't believe he could cause me such pain, and he will never be able to love me the way I need because he's hurt me so much. I do want to try, though, I love him and our family, but I can't make him. He told me that "all of a sudden now I want him because I am losing him". So cold! How can he be heartless like that? He says he loves me, but he can't just by saying those words. Sorry if I am rambling, I just feel like I am dying.
Broken, I'm so sorry for what you are going through. 2.5 weeks is very early and everything you are feeling is normal given what has happened. I know there are others here who can offer more solid advice than I can, but the best advice I can offer is to take care of yourself and know that your feelings are normal. I would also say if you can, find a therapist who you can talk to. I avoided telling anyone what was happening in the beginning but finally going to a therapist and being able to talk about my feelings was so helpful for me. While I'm sorry that you had reason to find this blog, I'm glad that you found it so soon after finding out about your husband's EA. The ladies on this blog have been amazing and a major part of my healing.
Broken, What you're feeling and how he's responding is pretty much standard for couples in this situation. He can't imagine you'll ever forgive him (more to the point, that he'll be able to forgive himself) so it's easier to walk away than to do the hard work of repairing the damage he's done. Sadly, it's that kind of thinking that leads to the affair in the first place. Easier to look somewhere else to have needs met than to work like hell to transform a relationship. Both of you are still reeling from this. If you even think you want to rebuild your marriage -- and he even thinks he wants the same -- then you both need to ensure that his relationship with the OW is over and there's no contact. None. And then...triage. I would urge each of you to find a counsellor to help you through. Someone who can help him sift through the thinking that got him into this mess and someone to support you through the pain of healing of betrayal. It's possible to heal without therapy...but it sure makes it harder. And please know, the agony you're in right now won't last. Be gentle with yourself. Eat what you can. Sleep as much as possible. Don't force yourself to make any big decisions right now. Let the dust settle. The time will come to rebuild or dismantle...but right now, trust that you'll get through this.
Oh, Broken...I wish I could climb through cyberspace and hug you and let you feel safe in your pain. Your story is almost CARBON COPY of my second H's affair...the friendship with OW in his industry, going on for 6 months before I found out, finding out via cell messages, not having that great of a marriage prior to A because of pressures and kids. So I know the devastation you are feeling, and my heart breaks! He even blamed it on me the way yours seems to be. I think they have a defense mechanism sometimes that says, "Gee, I royally screwed up, but I need to put some blame on her so that I don't feel so bad about myself" and probably so they can justify and possibly continue their actions. So selfish and cruel! You are at such a fragile place being so fresh from D-Day, but it will get somewhat better. I know in my case I gave it another year, in which he refused to stop being "friends" with her. Hopefully your H will come to his senses and stop the mind games and stop seeing her. A lot of the glamour wears off when they are found out. As for you Dear, only you can decide what is the path you want to take, whether with or without him. Either way is not easy or without pain, but ultimately YOUR choice. I would suggest you do something awesome for yourself... Go out with friends, take a night or 2 and go to a hotel just by yourself, or just go out and spend a shitload of money on YOU!! You deserve it, and you have every right to! I'm supporting you and you are NOT alone!! Love and BIG hugs!!
Yes, I think that's exactly what happens. It's a bizarre kind of thinking that says, "I did this awful thing to my wife and if I can't blame her in any way, it means that I'm just a colossal asshole. And since I don't want to be a colossal asshole, I'll tell myself that it's because my needs weren't being met, our marriage was bad, etc." Doesn't mean that stuff isn't true. It just means there were many other options to deal with a bad marriage, etc. than betraying the person he promised to never do that to.
Well, I just can't stop thinking about the OW. I want to know what kind of person she is. Really, I want to know. I know asking my H is CRAZY - and he won't be able to answer. Because, honestly...how could he ever come out on the good end of that conversation. It is killing me. I am falling a little backwards into the "You always had her" for 18 years - and I had no one. I am thinking back to all those holidays that didn't always go so well and even the ones that did. As we were laying in bed last night we talked about the past a little bit. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea to discuss all this. But he wanted to - so I explained how sad and angry I was for how he treated me over the past 18 years. I received little to no support when it came to discipling our kids; that he would sit in the same room and listen to some of the crap that came out of our son's mouth and NEVER stepped in - NEVER. Allowing me to believe I was just a little crazy because I would swear he told me one thing (A LIE) but then came out with a different story. That he knew I was lonely and depressed. But would not, could not comfort me. That how he tried to convince me he and the OW were really just friends - that's it. How he and the OW just spent one WHOLE night together (in 18 years?????). He still tries his best to downplay the whole 18 year relationship as "Not what you really think", and "The sex wasn't spectacular" or others like that. So I asked him "Why, if you didn't want to see OW any longer, did you stay", "if it was that stressful, hard ... you didn't love her. Why didn't you just end it. H says he hates himself, and is disgusted - was so disgusted and depressed at what he was doing - he couldn't figure out how to make it end. He told me last night he was afraid of what she might do. I asked H did he mean personally or professionally? He said he didn't know - maybe both. I asked H if OW threatened him - he said NO. But that you just never know what people will do, So of course, I wonder what the hell does she have on my H? What the hell is it?? 18 years - THIS makes me STUCK. H told me he is so grateful that I am here and willing to try to work on our marriage. That be still believes I may not come home tomorrow - that he loves me and wants to be a better man. I asked him "What if you can't"..... he said he knows he can. I just want to cry. My truth is I am still scared - so afraid. H says he knows I am afraid. And is trying to do whatever he can to make me feel safe. Sometimes it's not all up to him - it's partly me I guess. Thanks for letting me vomit my feelings before I go to work..... it really helps me.
Anonymous 1998, She's the kind of woman who's willing to have an affair with a married man. That's all you need to know. And if your husband remained the kind of guy willing to do the same without making amends, I'd say toss him out. But you have a history with him. He's determined to deserve this second chance. And he's willing to really listen to you outline all the ways in which he's betrayed you over the years. Nobody would blame you for walking out. But if you want to give him that second chance, I think you're both doing exactly what you should be doing. Being brutally honest. Allowing yourselves to be vulnerable with each other. This is terrifying, 1998. There are no guarantees that he can be that better man. There's no way to make life less terrifying. We have to shore up our strength and trust that we can handle whatever comes our way. Because we can. You can. You're doing great. Let the OW go. She's not worth your energy. Your husband stayed with her because he was chicken shit, which incidentally is the same reason he cheated on you. Easier to escape than face problems or conflict. He needs to learn new skills. He will continue to better understand why he did what he did and it will challenge his self-respect (if he has any). He will be forced to face some pretty ugly truths about himself. But ultimately, he will learn how to be that better man. In the meantime, you need your own pain validated. All those lonely years. All those small betrayals you knew about and the huge one you didn't. At a certain point, though, you'll have to make a decision. Live in the past? Or accept that past and decide to live in the now.
Dear 1998, I so agree with Elle. I told myself, I will give it 6 months and see where we are in process. I wanted the divorce and he didn't. I will assess my circumstances after 6 months. Then I gave it another 6 months becaus I still wasn sure. Because what your husband did to is so horrendous you might need a year for good measure. My husband was also afraid the OW would tell me so he was working on year 3 until I caught him. I haven't heard what your husband was missing, his justifications and excuses. None if it is justified but it may give you more insight and understanding as far as where his head is beside up his butt. So far his responses sound like side-stepping your questions. It will be difficult to understand with a response - "sex wasn't spectacular"? What does that mean 18 years were not spectacular. Don't let him blow you off. I would need an emotion timeline to begin with. It would take some type of man to admit this length of an affair then try to stick with you knowing what he choose for 18 years was being a number one sleaze ball. He still sounds like he needs help but is hanging in there. It would have been easier for him to leave that kind of mess behind him and you in the rear view mirror. Did he quit seeing her cold turkey or did it dwindle down? If he quit cold turkey then it wasn't that hard to leave the OW. I'm still feeling for your pain and injustice that was done to you. Just make sure of what you want. He lost all those years with you and the family. You didn't you were present and participated. He cannot get back any of that time it is gone. I don't buy he was afraid, was that year 5, 10,15 or 18? He is scared out of his mind he is going to come home and you are not there. Ask your self what is he doing to demonstrate he is trying to change. Men have a difficult time verbalizing especially when they think they don't deserve a second chance. How can he say anything when he doesn't deserve to voice his thoughts? Not that this right but I understand your need to meet the OW because your husband isn't give you the information you need. You are strong, you just can't see how strong you are.
Lynn - I don't know ... today is Tuesday. I am home alone. My H and son are gone to his parents for Thanksgiving and myself and our daughter will join them tomorrow late evening. So here I am... thinking. I have no clue what the hell he was thinking - really. He is going to counseling and we both continue weekly counseling. He has a lot of personal shit to work out that has nothing to do with me - but as I now know, affects me directly...and our fucking marriage. He is completely an avoidant person - avoids conflict, hard decisions, emotions, you name it he avoids it. But in business - he is a badass. He can do it all. I used to tell H to quit talking to me like I was one of his employees. He is trying the only way he knows how at this point - but I don't know if it will be enough for me. He still lets little bits of info out .... and I take it in. Do I handle H with kid gloves cuz I am afraid? I don't know. But really, at this point, I feel that I am not a hostage to the fear of being alone. I don't want to be alone ....seriously. I love my H and want no one but him. But if he cannot help himself - then I will have to make a decision. I know I should not give the OW any of my thoughts or time. But I have so much ANGER and HATE for that C*nt - i mean that. How is it that my life, my world is turned upside down and she gets to keep on living her fucked up life with her H and no kids. WHO is that kind of person?? I guess not much better than my H - fml. I hate Thanksgiving, I don't want to be around anyone - but I will smear a smile on my face and try and be happy around my kids and my H's parents. Unfortunately our kids know - and we will all be together.... I don't want to bum my kids out - but I can only fake it for so long.
A1998, I hope you'll build in some time so that you can be alone. Go for a walk by yourself after dinner or something and just let the smile fall from your face. Be tuned into your emotions so that they don't get crammed down. As for your husband, I think Lynn made really important points. Some guys, however, can't give you answers yet because they don't have them. They're as baffled by what they've done as you are. It made sense at the time but in the cold light of day?? Insanity. Since you aren't ready to make a choice one way or the other, I would recommend giving him time to work through a lot of this in therapy. You'll either begin to see changes or you won't. I suspect you will -- small insights he'll gain. In the meantime, you focus on you and your healing. Work through your anger re. the OW. Does her husband know? Let it exhaust itself. She's ultimately not worth giving her real estate in your brain. She's lost too but that's her problem, not yours.
Hi, Broken. I know, it hurts like hell. My husband had a 4 month EA. We're not quite 3 months past Dday 2 (the big one), and not quite 2 months past Dday 4. Yep, 4. He lied to me for over a month after he told me he would stop. He was a mess of emotions, and could not sort it out. I don't know your husband. but if he's anything like mine, he's irrational right now, swamped with grief, guilt, and self-loathing. And some of it turns to anger, and some of it gets turned on you. I know it's really hard to hold onto right now, but try to remember that when he says things that tear you up. Neither one of you is in the shape to make permanent decisions right now, so try to postpone it if you can. Just try to make it from day to day. At 2 1/2 weeks, I was in shock. It was a like a nightmare I couldn't wake up from, and I couldn't believe it had really happened. Accepting that it was real, that it HAD happened, and that my life would never be the same was the first step. I cried every day. I journalled every day. I found somebody neutral to talk to. My H and I talked as much as we could stand. He breathed hot and cold, held me and apologized, then became distant and shut himself down. After Dday 4 I saw a lawyer, but I never actually filled out the paperwork he gave me. My H started to come out of his fog and finally went NC with the OW. We don't know what our future's going to be like now, but we're working on it. I had a couple of good days this week, and some days when I struggled with depression and pure rage. But I'm doing a lot better than I was a month ago. And for now, we are still here. More experienced ladies will give you good advice, but I'm just a few steps ahead of you on this hellish path, and I can tell you that it does get better, by degrees. Prepare yourself for grief, anger, and paranoia, and ride them out. Let yourself feel them, as Elle says. And keep coming to this site. The BWC ladies are awesome. Even as they struggle themselves, they will reach out to you with love and support, and good advice. And, unlike anyone else, we can say to you with perfect truth: we know. We've been there. We have felt/are feeling exactly what you are feeling. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. You are heard. We are here for you. You will get through this. (((Hugs)))!!!! from Phoenix! Keep writing to us!
Phoenix, That is such a beautiful response to Broken and to anyone who finds herself on this road. It does get better, even in small amounts. And then you'll plunge back into despair and think you'll never feel better. But you will. It's a roller coaster. Up, down and round and round. But yes, you will get through this. And it's possible to not only get through this but to emerge with a stronger sense of who you are and a deep belief in your own strength and wisdom.
At 2.5 weeks i was a zombie barely get thru the bare minimum of the days to do work ... kids ... the world id walk numb thru the day and take hour long showers at night after sobbing on the bathroom floor. If your even taking a shower and getting out of bed at 2.5 weeks consider that enough for the day. I was numb sick and shocked for months ... im almost 7 mo out .... and while it still feels like just yesterday the world i knew ended ... i no longer wake in the morning crying my eyes out. I feel im no longer obcessing but definitely still thinking about it and processing ... managing ... trying to figure it out. Make a decision or sit idle till you figure it out. Myself i feel far to vested to shoot from the hip on this and in my heart i knew leaving without figuring it out wouldnt hurt any less then staying ....i still have my moments and a ways to go ... it my choice everyday to work on it so know this ... when everything is out of control and no gaurantees in life .... you can always control yourself .... its your choice everyday... i havent chimed in for some time besides betrayl i dealing with and healing from surgery .... big life lessons of control or more importantly things arent always able to be controlled. ... im still standinf .... to any new comers i chant .... im wounded but not broken. Xo
For Broken, The best advice I got early on was Take Care of Yourself. Really though, look out for yourself without apology (I can't believe he was sleeping with someone else and I was still feeling bad for doing the math on an apartment of my own!!) and be kind to yourself about the confusion and the pain and insanity as it comes up because they're normal parts of this. Figure out what you want to do... but don't beat yourself up for not already having the answer.
I remember searching and searching for things that gave me hope that the pain would end even if I didn't leave him and that it might be possible to find a way to not just keep this man but be genuinely happy together. I'm not there yet but I'm far enough that I don't have to take these possibilities entirely on faith any longer. The pain fades and, as you sort things out with each other, you might grow closer in ways you wouldn't expect.
One word of advice I wish I would have gotten was already mentioned... don't let yourself be rushed into making choices. Take your damn time. It is your right.
Oh, and also... as Blinders said.. spend a shitload of money on yourself if you can-- Especially if you've been playing "the responsible one" - time to take really good care of you =) In my case, it had an unexpected positive effect on him.
I am so very sorry for all the hurt you are experiencing right now - I know the pain can be so overwhelming especially in the early days and weeks. I was a zombie for quite some time - numb to everything and not able to eat or sleep.
As other have said now is a time to be kind to yourself. Do what you need and take care of yourself. Breath in and out. I think sleep is a big thing, I was not sleeping well and often not at all. Sleep depravation can make everything that much harder; if you are having a hard time sleeping you may want to try an over the counter sleep aid or see your doctor. I used some over the counter herbs and Tylenol PM, which really made a difference when I knew how strung out I was from lack of sleep.
Also, please please know this is not your fault in any way - ever!!!! No marriage is perfect and lots of us have been struggling in our marriage prior to finding out about affairs. That does not make the affair our fault in anyway!!! We are partners in our marriages both in good times and the hard times, but we are never responsible for H's betrayal. That was his bad choice and his alone. I know the shame and guilt can be serious feelings, but you are not alone. This has happened to many of us and it is not our fault.
Also, I would suggest not making too many big decisions early on. I know that for me my thoughts and feelings were all over the place and could change very quickly. That is normal and you don't need to have any answers right now or be forced into decisions. Just breath, one day at a time, and slowly the best path for you and your family will be found.
Also, this site can be a real life saver!! Elle has a lot of wisdom and compassion to share and so do all of the women here. This is a safe place to share and find support and be inspired.
Today was a hard day. Triggers and fear both this morning and evening. There has been drama of late with the OW. Someone left a note on her car saying that my H loves me and only used her for sex. She accused me of leaving the note and called me pathetic.
I did not leave that note!!!! I have had lots of crazy schemes to act out towards her, but they are only that .... Crazy schemes in my head. I know nothing good would come of it and I am not that kind of person. If I did ever contact her it would be planned and via email not an anonymous note on her car.
Of course I think she did it herself or is making up as a way to get attention from my H. Which she succeeded- he's says she would never do that blah blah and that is so hurtful blah blah crap! Ahhhhhhh. I know he still feels more for her than he tells me.... I guess he is trying to avoid hurting me. But after 15 years I know him pretty well the amazing and the complicated baggage!
I hate all of this so much and on days like this I am not sure I can make it..... What is it anyway. A better marriage. True partnership knowing myself, facing fear, learning compassion and connect.... I'm not sure if I can these things???? I want to hide in a cave with my dog.
Becky, A cave with your dog sounds like the perfect place for you right now. I'm speaking metaphorically but seriously -- disengage from him and this ridiculous OW. You will make it. But sometimes we need to just curl up with our dog, who would NEVER EVER cheat on us, and let the world just drift past us until we're ready to face it again. In the meantime, your husband can work his ass off trying to prove to you that he deserves a second chance with you. If he can't be bothered doing that -- if he's too busy defending the OW's good name (ha!) -- then make sure you get custody of the dog.
I know what you mean, Becky. Some days it all seems worth working for, and other days you just feel like giving up. It's weird, something like that happened with us last week. The OW's friend, who still works with my H, told him about a spiteful anonymous phone call OW got. NOT me...if I ever decide to confront her, I'll have a lot more to say than that. We finally decided someone was making it up - he wants to blame the friend, of course. What. Ever. It raised questions in my mind about how much he is talking to the friend about OW...it even raised the spectre of fear that he heard it from The Skank herself, making me question whether there was really NC. But I had to let it go... This morning I completely lost my temper with him for no good reason. My emotions are a wreck. I know how much it rankles to hear him defend the OW, and to wonder what he really feels for her. It sucks. We didn't sign up for this. I resent so much that this despicable third person has been invited into our marriage - by him. Sometimes I envy the women whose husbands have learned to despise the OW. I know they have their own challenges - but at least they and their husbands can bond and work together AGAINST this person, be a team that way. In cases like ours, our husbands still have feelings for the enemy, and it's a barrier, isn't it? I'm sorry, I wish I could offer more encouragement, but all I've got right now is empathy. Hang in there, friend. By the very nature of time, these skanks are going to get smaller and smaller in the rear-view mirrors of our lives. And we will get through days like this...(((Hugs))) to you! I will be thinking about you today!
I think you're right both your phone call and my note situation are probably made up. They just don't make sense and we know we didn't do it.
You're also right that we will get through these days... And the terrible OW will become smaller and less meaningful. my H actually tells me that, as we become stronger together she becomes smaller and less and less to him. Honestly, I think he mostly feels sorry for her abuse and bad situation. But has not totally disengage from all the emotional stuff generated by the affair.
I wish she would just go away far far away!!! Anyway. Thanks for the support. Hugs.
From: Juniper (on Feeling Stuck: Part 9, where we've run out of space) Hi ladies, I am 8 months in and the road has been hell. My husband and I are still together and still madly in love. He had an affair with a woman from work for 10 months. He came clean in March, a month after he finally ended it with her. 2 months later we got pregnant and unfortunately lost our son at 17 weeks along. I birthed him and held his little body for 5 hours before I finally gave him over to the nurse. We lost our baby to my grief. My husband blamed himself, I blamed myself. I was suicidal, fighting for my life...and here I am still breathing still hoping still loving. I am too tired to share my full story, and really it doesn't matter the details. Please know that our husband's affairs had nothing to do with us. Could we have been better wives, mother's, human beings? Of course, we all have room to be better but that is no excuse for what they chose to do. They chose to do it to escape, to fill the gaping hole within themselves, because they were addicts, because they had no gratitude for the lives they had. Because they forgot why they married us in the first place. They married us because they loved us. And we loved them. So it is not useful to beat yourselves us. There is nothing you could have done. The only reason it was "her" is because she was available. Nothing more. There is nothing special about her. Period. That said please stop focusing on your husband, the other woman, what you did wrong, etc and focus on yourself. You didn't deserve this and you don't deserve to suffer. You deserve your love, your kindness, your compassion. Yes we have been reduced to rubble and we need to rebuild. But it is not our marriages we need to rebuild, it is ourselves. Give love to yourself, have reverence for yourself, find little things to be grateful for, connect with your bodies, pamper yourself. You deserve it after the hell you have been put through. Find little moments that give you joy and one day you will wake up and feel happy. Surrender, let it be, smile at yourself in the mirror, hug yourself often. Heal yourself and your marriage will follow. Or not. But at least you will be whole, not broken. We are stronger than we think. Blessings, compassion and love to all. My heart is with you xxx would just like to add...details...I was stuck on the details...maybe I will be again...today is a good day and I am putting the questions out of my mind. My husband also gets upset when I ask him more details, he tells me he has already told the me truth. Something that he said keeps sticking in my mind. He said "what does it matter, it was all ugly it was all disgusting and it never should have happened, please forgive me, please come back to me". I am not trying to excuse our husbands, but just know that if they are truly remorseful, and you will know if they are, they are feeling so much shame and guilt. They are also in a lot of pain. They feel pain every time they look in our eyes and know that they are the cause of ours.I know it is difficult and I am not saying excuse them for what they did, but understanding and compassion go a long way(to heal ourselves). If we truly want to heal, we have to try to have compassion for them as well. Not necessarily for why they had the affair, but for the pain, guilt and overwhelming shame they are feeling now, right along side of yours. For those who have husbands who are not remorseful or don't feel bad, even more reason to feel compassion for them. Poor sorry souls. And know that is no reflection of your worth. It is representative of theirs. We are ALL worthy of love and belonging Peace Love & Respect ladies xxx
Juniper, I am so sorry for the loss of your beautiful baby. I would caution you, however, against making any sort of assumptions re. the reason you lost your baby. Grief is powerful, of course, but remember that babies have been born in refugee camps, concentration camps and in other horrific circumstances. I think you and your husband have been through enough pain without blaming yourselves further for this loss.
And gratitude to you for having this amazing blog. For so long I haven't felt a part of the human race(after the affair and then amplified by the loss of our son). Like I was an outsider looking in. Everything felt surreal. The feeling of connecting with another woman personally who understands the suffering I am feeling is affecting me in a really profound way. Thank you
Wow thank you for the heartfelt beautiful post!! It really touched me. My heart goes out to you and your H for the loss of your son. I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for being brave and vulnerable here. I feel like you taught me so much in one post. With love and well being, Becky.
Hi Elle, Thank you, we both struggle with this, but we try to see the lessons we have both learned through the loss of our son. His death could have been the last straw but it just brought us closer together, so his precious little life was not for nothing. Of course, we don't know why he died and we will never know. He was a perfect baby with no genetic problems that they could find. His little heart just stopped. That said, we can't underestimate the damaging effects of stress and negativity on our health and I look at the loss of our son as a hard lesson learned, as does my husband. The loss has made me realize that I am only harming myself by continuing on with my suffering. That and I refuse to give her the gift of my suffering any longer.
Juniper, I'm glad you found us. It sounds as if you're ready to put an incredibly painful year behind you. You'll find much support and wisdom and deep compassion from the women on this site. I'm consistently humbled by the kindness I see so many extend to others here and the grace I witness in the women whose hearts have been broken but who are still able to love.
Juniper, I'm terribly sorry for your loss. Your post was honest and beautiful. It touched on so many things that I struggle with and I know many others here do too.
Thank you Dandelion. The last 8 months have been so surreal. I felt like I was out of my body. I lost myself and felt like I was broken in a million pieces, like my soul was wandering...lost and beyond retrieval. I realized I had two choices, to live in fear, doubt and hate or to choose love. I choose love and am trying to live moment by moment choosing love. So when I want to scream at my husband in anger for what he did I think to myself, what will be the consequences? Will anything good come out of this? It is just more harmful, to me and to him. We have suffered enough. So I choose love. I am learning to be conscious. Hate in my heart is not going to solve anything. Love squashes all the feelings of revenge, of anger, of hate. I try to choose love every moment because I know if I don't we will just keep living in hell. My husband is also broken from what he did. He has quit his job and we have moved across the country. He is truly remorseful, understands why he did what he did, doesn't blame me. We both hit rock bottom. There came a point where he had done everything he could possibly do and I realized that now it was up to me. Up to me to stop punishing him and ultimately myself. It was up to me to love myself and allow him to love me too. It is a lot to ask someone to keep loving you when you keep hating them. It is a lot to ask someone to love you when you are hating yourself. We can hate what they did but if we truly want to spend the rest of our lives with them, we have to love them and make our way back to them(after we make our way back to ourselves). Even as I say it I feel some resistance, the temptation of my grievances...but that's just the way it has to be. For me at least. Otherwise whats the point? I feel that if I truly love him like I say and believe I do then I should act like it. I take no responsibility for his affair but I have to take responsibility for how I am reacting to it. I can still feel angry, still feel hurt, still feel all those things but respond from a place of love. Otherwise I will truly die, spiritually, emotionally, and ultimately physically. It has felt like a painful slow death up until this point. I refuse to continue on that path. Life is too beautiful and the love we share to precious to throw away over anything. Going forward I am sure I will falter but at least I have something to come back to over and over again, and that is me, the love I have found for myself. I closed myself off from love out of fear, but I feel it flowing again. It is what makes us who we are. Love. We can't deny ourselves the love we deserve. That's when things like affairs happen. How can we truly love another if we don't love ourselves first? When we don't love ourselves we look elsewhere and do all kinds of other crazy shit. Really we just need to look within. All the answers are there. I am learning some much needed lessons through this and I know I will never be the same again...and I am glad for it because I am stronger, wiser and fearless. f I make it though this I can make it through anything! I learned my worth, I OWN my worth. That's what I am getting from all of this mess. I keep asking myself, what are the lessons i need to learn here. Who am I in all of this? I am a strong proud brave and courageous and forgiving woman who is full of love and worthy of love, that's who I am. So thank you affair for giving me that gift! I am going to go back and read your story, Dandelion because you took the time to read mine.
Juniper, your story is heart breaking and your outlook is amazing. I was crying reading your post to Dandelion because you are so positive and hopeful. Thank you for sharing your story and your response to what happened. I love that you say you choose love. Hugs and prayers for continued healing.
Thank you, Juniper. I have received so many unexpected messages on this path to healing. Some of them come in the form of random things friends have posted on Facebook, others have been posts or comments on this blog, or stumbling across another blog. But they have all been messages that I needed to hear at that exact time. I believe that it happened that way for a reason. Your last post definitely hit me that way. It came the day after my husband and I went to our therapist and the things you said were pretty close to what we discussed. I struggle sometimes to acknowledge how far my husband and I have come and fall back instead on what has happened. I know I may never forget it but I do have the choice to not live back there. I also struggle with acknowledging my husband's pain. He's remorseful and he's doing the right things, but I also have to understand that he needs to heal too. Up until now, I've been too wrapped up in my own pain. Sometimes it's hard to acknowledge the good that has come in the wake of the affair, but if I'm honest I need to do just that. My husband and I were both broken down, but we are rebuilding, one day at a time. Thanks again for your words. Your strength is so evident in what you've written.
Juniper, That's such an incredible post and you've so succinctly said what many of us want. With your permission, can I post your comment as a blog entry? I think more people will find it that way. Let me know...
I don't even know how to explain how stuck I am, which for a person who is never at a loss for words, is frustrating. I feel like I'm stuck in this constant cycle of fear. The OW's baby is due in February and I feel like until we know whether the baby is my husband's, I am just stuck. How do I know what our life is going to look like in 3 months, much less down the road? It's affecting our recovery/reconciliation because I'm so scared of the situation that it makes it hard to focus on anything else. I want so badly for us to feel more connected, when I first found out she was pregnant, it felt like it brought my husband and I closer, I guess because of the oneness of figuring out how this would affect our lives, business, etc. She originally told me she would work through me for everything, but that didn't pan out the few times we had contact with her. We are NC until after the baby is born and we need to arrange the DNA test. I'm worried my husband's "feelings" for her will come back when he needs to interact with her and I worry that he'll resent me, which is just stupid and I know it. He really is trying hard to do the right things to help my recovery, although he loses his temper sometimes when I get upset continuously, but I think its mostly because he's disgusted with himself and then he is always apologetic afterward (this is not the norm, most of the time he's very supportive and can hold me in my pain), but I tend to focus on all of the bad stuff and its magnified for me. He reassures me when I communicate my worries that he does not want to be with her and even if we weren't together, he would not be with her, although he said he'd obviously be in more contact with her due to the baby. He said he could never resent me because he's the one that got us into this mess, but I just don't know. I feel like having a baby with someone is such an intimate experience and it pisses me off that he didn't try to prevent it and assumed she was on birth control. I'm mad because my four year old son will be affected in ways I don't even know how to comprehend yet and I'm just pissed that this is our life. I'm trying so hard to forgive the OW because of the situation but its so hard, harder yet because I'm sure that she tried to get pregnant believing that would cause him to leave me. I feel guilty because I just want this all to go away, which makes me feel bad because that baby is a human life and once we're past the figuring out how it will work, I know she'll be a happy part of our family, I'm convinced that we can look past the situation to love the child who had no choice in her birth circumstances. I'm making myself crazy too, with wondering if he's still talking to her. Her number is blocked and I really don't believe he is, but I'm crazy making with his cell phone, triggered nonstop (that was his primary means of communication with her). UGH.
Out of the Ashes, I wonder if a big part of your feeling stuck is that you're trying to manage things you simply can't know. And certainly can't manage. It will take Herculean effort but try to stay in the moment. Right now...you and your husband are managing pretty well under the circumstances. Right now, you have a healthy wonderful little boy. Don't push things. Whether or not you're able to forgive the OW isn't necessarily a decision for now. Let it happen organically. Let yourself resent this baby for now. Resenting the intrusion into your already difficult life right now doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you human. I suspect your compassion and your kindness will ultimately serve you...but don't force it. You deserve to just be pissed off right now at everything you're being asked to deal with. So...what's your next right step. I would think it's to focus on being gentle with yourself, giving your son some stability in the midst of this emotional turmoil, and trusting in yourself. That's all you need to know right now. Next right step.
Elle, thank you. You're right and I just posted that on my bulletin board, the next right step. In my pre-affair life, I was the control freak, organizer, planner, etc. and I struggle with the loss of control over what feels like ANY aspect of my life. I know that's not entirely true, but some days it feels like it. I overthink everything and I need to remember to just focus on the now. This just sucks, for all of us, not just me. I'm so grateful for this site, I come here and read old articles when I'm really down, but I'm so incredibly sad that we (all of us collectively) need this site.
Ashes, I think a lot of us were control freaks. Not sure if that's just a female thing -- we've always got a hundred balls in the air so we need to have everything under control. In any case, one of my biggest epiphanies is realizing that we don't control nearly as much as we think we do. It's an illusion. And an exhausting one. Learning to let go of that illusion and focus solely on what I CAN actually control (which usually amounts to me and me alone) is really liberating.
Maybe im not as stuck as i thought or maybe an epiphany ... ill take it for now knowing as easily as i step forward there is possability to always fall back which is not a failure just a need to revisit and process some more or deal with anything new should it arise ... hope not ... Im almost 7mo out in conjunction to betrayal. .. ive also been dealing with injury/recovery which was very painful and now very limiting and slow recovery ive had weeks on end to lie here by my lonesome and just think ... feel .. absorb. Two interesting things happened .... #1 while on the computer yesterday i noticed my H left his log in to his email saved ... i thought about looking and then clicked off and didnt .... growth idk i think a better grasp to not having control no matter how much i play nancy drew or correctional officer. .. in the long its only torturing me. There are many things i insist on access too and others i dont simply because he could always have another email account. Use another phone. Etc you get the idea and deep down i can only control me not him ... i do tell him this often i cant lock him away only hooe he acts accordingly ...looking for action in the now vs thumbing ever account statement is better use of my time occasionally i may still look at somethings new or revisit old weather that strictly impulse to quiet the obcessive girl in me or really serves a purpose im not sure but its not nearly to the degree and hours spent during the initial months! #2 against my better judgment. .. all this limited downtime i was left with wtf do people do all day at home, limited? My friend (remember no one knows of the affair) suggested i heal while watching a series ironically called the affair on showtime. .. would i be triggered? Obcessed? Set back? reeling or even sobbing on the floor? NOW early on i had trouble even watching tv ... listening to music and realized everything seemed to remind me of love sex affair!!! Im better now ... i devoured this series 2 seasons of episodes filled with cheating, scandal but the best part even if fucking fiction and for entertainment purpose it shows perception from all parties involved and outsiders looking in chime in ... that i identified with and ended thinking it doesnt make it right but truly this shit happens all the time it is just isnt spoken about over dropping the kids off at coffee or in general. I still have my moments of thinking about it ... i still have a ways to go on me and for us in our relationship but it hasnt killed me certianly hurt like hell and my trust and mind altered but still standing ... while dday truly seems like yesterday in the same token i think ... wow 7mo seemed dreadful day by day slow actually went fast the holiday season i was dreading ... today bring it on ill stilk be standing in January. Guess im just rambling and not sure exactly my point ... other than we all have abilities to keep standing up even when it feels hopeless after being knocked down. My H and i still talk about it still ... i think about it still. I try not to throw as many jabs at him.. it will be there always ... but maybe it can be in the rearview mirror vs front and center? One day at a time thats all we truly have to do. Im thankful for finding the BWC and wish you all a little sparkle this Thanksgivings. Xo
Wounded, Wow...sounds like you've come a long way in a short period of time. Seven months isn't so long at all, though it likely feels like an eternity. You're right in so many ways. And let me assure you the day will come when it's in the rear-view mirror...or out of view entirely.
Out of the Ashes, With so much uncertainty in your life and throw out all the healing guidelines that help, like no contact, in your situation. Just a thought to keep you and your husband is moving forward. Sit down and talk - what are his expectations if the baby is or is not his. How involved will he be? How will he handle contact with the OW? What are your expectations? Do you want to be there when he first sees his baby? What is the plan worse case? If you plan and are prepared for the worse and both of you know what the expectations are you can deal with it or say bye-bye. This is HIS mess to clean up. Don't assume so much of the burden, this is not your mess. Some of your posts you almost guessing what he is thinking? You need to know what he is thinking. I ask my husband, pretend I'm dead, not in the picture, what would YOU do? What decisions would you make?if you ask take a day or two to be prepared for his answers. He will not speak his heart if he thinks you will be accusatory, ballistic, go nuts. What I do is tell myself, I'm going to just listen. I'm not going to say one word. Sometimes there are paus s of silence but I just wait and he eventually begins to talking again. I would be asking him a ton of questions about his expectations and having a plan might help with the uncertainty. I can't even imagine your pain.
Out of the ashes, One more comment you attitude toward this child if it is dumb ass's child is one of compassion, graciousness, a huge heart and that says it all about you. How good a person is that? Your dumb ass husband should be kissing the ground you walk on. Who else can your husband expect to have that in their heart to give? His alternative is to pay up for 2 families. Does he even realize you have the grounds to clean his clock and he will pay for the rest of his life? His future is in your hands. That is something that is certain.
Lynn, thank you. Sometimes I don't realize I need the validation of not being totally crazy until I come here and there is no judgement whatsoever. My husband and I have actually talked the issue through thoroughly, amazingly enough, outside of his piss poor moral decisions, we have always been great communicators. I guess where I get hung up is on the OW. We do want to be involved, truly if I thought she would sign custody over to us entirely I'd do it in a heartbeat, neither of us can truly imagine knowing there is a child out there, a sister to my son, that we don't know, plus the OW is hardly a pillar of morality, among other things, so I feel she'll have a better upbringing with us involved. Because my lack of respect for the OW is so strong, I imagine up all kinds of worst case scenarios for how difficult she will make this. My husband truly does not feel they are a second family, he believes when the baby is with us she's ours and hers when she's with her. And when I first found out and considered staying, he was pretty close to kissing my feet. I guess I struggle because I feel like she'll make it difficult, he'd rather and I'd rather be there when he first meets the baby, but because I think she was counting on this to be her way to get him to leave, she's been a bit bitter, telling me she appreciates how civil I've been (because I'll be nice to her if it kills me and it just might) but it's not my child it's his. Thanks for the reminder, just in case there was a way I could actually forget. I do struggle with control and wanting to know how things are going to work and I know I need to work on that because it's making me crazy. We had asked her to sit down with us to talk about how we all think this might work, but she refused because she's upset we want another DNA test and that my husband won't be there when the baby is born (she's delusional). so she doesn't see a need for us to meet prior. Probably true, the chances aren't good of it not being my husband's but there is a slim one, so could be an unnecessary meeting, would just help my crazy. Thanks for the kind words, I've known without a doubt (which is crazy since I don't know much anymore) that if I stayed, I'd consider this child as much mine as his. Sorry if all of that is out of order, some days I can't seem to process my thoughts clearly.
Your thoughts are perfectly clear. More than mine would be in the same situation. Be by your husband's side no matter what. Don't leave him a minute alone with that low life. I would encourage him not to be in labor room. I'm a nurse and it would not be good. Many healthcare workers will assume husband and wife situation. That would not be good. Set boundaries please for your own good. Your willing to take the child with an open heart and that is enough. Do not let your husband alone with this woman ever, never ever that would not be good and a high risk.
Thanks Lynn. H and I talked again this weekend and he is not going to be there when the child is born. I guess I was upset because at first he kept saying he definitely did not want to be there and now its changed to, "you've asked me not to be and I want to respect that", which made me feel like he would resent me if the child ends up being his. He said that he truly does not know if he'll be upset at missing her birth or not if she is his, but it doesn't matter even if he is because he created the situation, so he has no one to blame but himself and will not consider going against my wishes just to be there. I also expressed that I believe being there during her birth would be more for the OW than for the baby as it will not affect the baby in any way, shape or form and he hadn't thought about it like that, which I think settled him even more into being certain he won't be there. My only concern at this point is the day that he'll meet the baby. The DNA test will take 2-3 weeks to come back and I think he's torn as he doesn't really want to see the baby if its not his, but feels like he should in case it is, so I think he wants to meet her before its confirmed. I'm fine with that, but I believe the OW will block me from attending that meeting. I'm torn on how to handle that, but I'm trying to block it from my mind until the time comes to focus on us right now. I can't control what's going to happen at that point (a fact that is killing me, but one lesson I'm learning, thanks to Elle, is that this whole situation has taught me the only control I have is over myself), so I'm going to focus on our healing and connection. I think once we get over the initial hurdle of the meeting the baby, its a moot point as I don't think she'll block me being the one to pick up and drop off the baby (at the very least, she can't stop me from going with him) and we are meeting with our attorney before the baby is even born to know our rights. We'd like to work things out with her in a friendly manner as that's best for the child and then have our agreement documented with the attorneys, but if we can't, then we'll go the legal custody route. On a daily basis, I just cannot believe this is my life. I told my husband a few times during that conversation that this is NOT what life is supposed to be like and he affirmed that over and over. For so many reasons, I believe his regret and remorse, but this sadness that's been hovering around me for the past few weeks can't accept his remorse right now. I told him once in the beginning that even if I left, this would still be my life: my husband still would have cheated, he still would have gotten another woman pregnant and I still would have to deal with the aftermath due to our son, so my choices are to rebuild with him or without him. I've always believed in us, so I choose us, but some days it is SO hard. I don't feel like there is anything special about me or maybe he's here because I'm a good partner in parenting, our business, etc. He swears that's not it and tries very hard with his actions to show me, but how do you get to the point that you believe it?
Just ask him if his actions like wanting to see the baby before the DNA test is for the OW or the baby. Really what is the baby going to get out of this. At every turn ask him, "is this for the baby or OW?". If he says baby then ask ok how will this help the baby? I would not allow my husband to go see a child that may not be his. Because all he is really seeing is the OW. Keep it clean and play it straight. You still have a long legal road to go if it is his. You don't want the OW taking away more money than is fair from your child to support his other child if either of you jump the gun.
Lynn, that's a good question and one I hadn't thought to ask. I think realistically, it's more for him, not wanting to miss time if the child is indeed his, BUT I do know he will respect my wishes if I say no meeting until after DNA is confirmed. I guess maybe I'm trying to be overly (I don't know what the word I'm looking for is), like I'm okay with him meeting the baby prior to confirmation, as long as I'm there, I don't know why. But if I can't be, then I'm not, crazy, right? I know he'll say for sure its not for the OW, he is adamant that he feels nothing for her. Not sure what I believe. He's said he can't hate her like I do, but dislikes her for his own reasons (like not making sure she was covered, he assumed (his mistake) that she was on birth control and we both believe she was hoping to get pregnant thinking that would spur him to leave me) and for sleeping with another guy at the same time. Regardless, I know I'll have to be okay with contact if it's his, I'm just not comfortable with it happening if I'm not there. Thanks for thinking of that question, it helps so to have a different perspective, especially because the sadness has just overwhelmed me this week and I can't think clearly.
I am having a bit of a paranoid day. I'm trying to believe in him, but deep down I am so afraid that he is going to betray me again. Some days, all it takes is some behavior of his that is a little "off", and I lose at least a couple of hours to suspicion, speculation, and concern. He calls it "going down the rabbit hole". I know it's not healthy. I guess it's just part of the process. He's about to be out of town for 2 nights. I will join him the second night. And in the meantime I will try to calm my nerves, making cranberry sauce, sweet potato casserole, salad, and gingerbread. And hey, Becky! I joined a gym! We'll see if cooking and exercise can calm my jangled nerves. Thinking of my BWC pals as the holiday looms....! Juniper and Out of the Ashes, I feel for both of you, for the additional grief and burdens you have had to endure. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Phoenix, Yes, it is part of the process. Do your best to not give into it, as fear feeds on itself. Try your best to live in the moment and...happy thanksgiving.
Phoenix, I love his description! I feel you, I'm the same way, one thing that I think might be off and I'm on a tangent for hours, if not days. My counselor suggested making a truth list, which has helped me a bit. Even though we don't trust them, if we're trying to work things out, we need to learn to take what they say at face value, especially if they are making what appears to be a good effort at reconciliation. So, for me, my truth today would be that my husband re-iterated again this morning (unprompted) that this is where he wants to be and that he loves me. Its difficult for me to swallow sometimes, because I'm an overthinker (so I read something into every comment or action) and because I don't trust him yet, but her point is that if I'm going to heal, I need to learn to take his actions and words as truth (within reason, if intuition is screaming or something isn't matching up, that's a different story). If I find out later that it isn't, then I deal with it at that time, but if I'm constantly "going down the rabbit hole", I make myself crazy and it can hinder my healing. It isn't perfect (and I don't think at the stage we're both in as if I remember, you aren't too far out from dday either), but it does help pull me out of the hole sometimes and for me, sometimes is better than none. Maybe that would help you too. I'm glad you joined a gym, that's a healthy way to help yourself heal. Praying for you!
I know, you're right. I'm really not ready to take what he says at face value yet. But I need to try. And the rabbit hole hurts me more than anyone. But I still feel such a strong need to protect myself. I'll just keep working on it one day at a time. And try to focus in the truths. Thank you!
Phoenix. Good for you!!! I hope exercise and cooking give you an outlet. I know it is so easy to go down the rabbit hole. I have done it many times, but I do think I am slowly making some better choices. Pain shopping is a concept I learned about on this site and it helped to take a hard look at my situation. Was I really at risk or was it fear holding me hostage??? At different times there were different answers. I know it can be even harder when there has been a lot of trickle truth and subsequent lies and d-days.
We had a lot of subsequent lies for at least 3 months post the big d day.
Also Junipers recent post really touched my heart and I am trying to choose love, even when I am afraid, angry, or feel small.
Happy thanksgiving - I hope and pray for the best for all of us. I am so thankful for all you ladies and to Elle for this site!!!
Hi. I have been reading this site for days now and I am finally deciding to share my story in hopes that it will help because nothing else has. This is my 2nd marriage. The 1st ended badly after 13 years but not due to infidelity. I was that girl. The one that will never love and never marry and will enjoy my freedom forever. Then entered my H. He was everything I never knew I always wanted. We had an amazing relationship and I was truly happy maybe for the first time ever. We dated for a year then lived together for a year then married August 4th of this year. Then...dday. H works out of town a lot. He had a class and was out of town for two months and home on weekends. About 6 weeks ago he had been home for 2 days when I got a Facebook message from the OW saying that she had been having sex with H for a month. He didn't tell her he was married. He didn't even give her his real cell number! He used this girl and made it very easy for himself to cut her off when it was time to come home. I thought at first that that was at least something but I do not feel that way anymore. This girl was shattered. I am shattered. I do not know this person that I am not supposed to share my life with. This is not the man I married. I am heartbroken. I have cried for weeks. The anger is so intense that I find myself saying things that are horrible. He says all the right things but after 6 weeks of my mood swings and me slamming him every time I get the opportunity I'm not sure if fixing this is even a possibility for us. Please help me.
Rae I am so sorry, a newlywed and THIS happens. Horrible. I am so sorry. I will never understand why these guys get married. My H did not tell the other woman he was married either, as a matter of fact I did not exist. I also felt terrible for that girl but since he was using a fake e-mail account we deleted it IMMEDIATELY and have never heard from her, yet I know she could find him and me if she really wanted. I once saw in an email that he told someone he had been in "long term relationship, but nothing serious". Ahem, excuse me?? Oh He had quite an online harem, where he spun AMAZING webs of deceit about what he did for a living, where he lived, he "planned" trips cross country with these broads. offered to pick up their costs etc etc ridiculous.You do not hold the record for saying horrible things although I am sure you have let them FLY. Just believe that. We have all said things, and rightly so, that we didnt even know we could pronounce. and six weeks? Honey you are the one spinning right now. What is he doing about this? How is he treating YOU? Fixing it is possible if he's on board and you're onboard, and if you're not on board, guess what--we get that too. YOu can, but dont need to decide right now. Our therapist had us treat the 'relationship" like a 3rd entity. what was good for it and what was bad for it--it was a Godsend Which brings me to therapy. Can you go? Even if your husband will not? and if he wont, that says something. Many hugs to you and this shattered heart you have. We have all been here and are here for you.
Dear Rae, Your marriage/relationship is so NEW!! THIS so soon??? How long will it be before you ever know for certain if this has always been just his lifestyle "pattern"...do you want to stay 5 or 10 more years looking over your shoulders to find that out? I am so sorry, but believe what he DOES rather than him simply "saying all the right things". It may very well be that he has already learned what kind of "right things" to say for these kinds of "occasions". Had he known this girl prior to this particular class? Did he just meet her recently, schmooze her, and then make quick work out of her?
What do you want help for...to stay, or to leave?? There is nothing in between...you will have to work HARD to do either. Each time he works out of town it will set you right back to Dday. My husband is par excellent at using words to spin his stories...but I only believe what he DOES...and that is only when he is in plain view. Even then, I wonder who he is thinking about while using me. This is no way to live...but I am in my sixties now, and found out about his affair exactly a year ago. We have been married ten years. During the first year, I found constant Porn, him pushing me for sexual perversions, and noticed his constant flirting with his customers. It has been a long slow "death" and a life filled with shame, pain and mistrust. I want nothing more now except peace of mind...and I only know of one way left to get it at this point since I have lost all trust in him and he has DONE NOTHING to try and restore it. I wanted confession and full disclosure...he wont give me that. He still stays up till 2am on line long after I have gone to bed. I do not know what he does at work...or "who" he is fantasizing about.
I went to the Lord last year when I first found out about this affair. I was going to go straight to a Lawyer, but made that diversion first. I felt that I was impressed to wait one year, then go back to the Lord to see what He wants me to do. This gave me a calm and the ability to remain kind and loving. We read the WHOLE Bible this past year together every night.
Well, just three weeks ago, my husband said "I am going to put you out of your torment...I want a divorce". It emotionally felt like he was just saying that he was going to go upstairs to brush his teeth. I have slowly grown numb and detached over the years (while still smiling)...but the affair pushed me over the top and now I find that I no longer care. So I suppose the Lord KNEW that he would announce his desire for divorce just weeks before I was going to seek Him about our "issue" again. It is out of my hands and I am finally going to be at peace.
Sweetz, I'm so sorry for what you've been through and for the absolute lack of respect and regard your husband has shown you. Him leaving you is, perhaps, the nicest things he's done. I hope you'll nonetheless take the time to work through your pain so that you're free of him emotionally too.
Thank you Elle...you are absolutely correct. His announcement is the kindest thing that he is capable of, given the fact that he cannot bear to examine his OWN soul. It is a relief. Game is up...he has become very cold and disconnected as if I was ever the problem. He started this affair at a time in our lives when we had everything good going on...new house, weekly bible study with family and friends, great income, peace between us. I thought he was committed and began to relax (not snooping). Then BLAM!! I walked straight into him having a private lunch with a woman alone in the back room of his store. This had been going on for several months. He does not even blush. I am nothing more to him except the hole that he uses while waiting for the hole that he prefers. He does not even attempt to have sex with me anymore since then (thank God). As a couple, we are dead...actually, it was only me that was once alive in this relationship all along dragging a dead man...trying to prop him up, thinking that I had something special...waiting for him to "see the light".
Hi, Rae. Steam gave you really good input. I'm pretty new and my situation is different, but I just want to add moral support. Your mood swings are understandable! We all have them. You've been dealing with shock, pain, anger, and a terrible disillusionment. That this has happened so early in your marriage doesn't bode well at all, but of course you know that. I am worried for you and hoping this is not a pattern of behavior for him. When you can handle it, try to get him to talk about it as much as he can or as much as you can stand. You're right, he's not the guy you thought he was, and you've got to figure out whether you can live with the guy you've got. Be good to yourself, take your time, and figure this out. You can do this. It is terribly unfair and wrong that you have to do it - but you can. We feel your pain. (((Hugs)))!!
The answer to almost all of your questions is I have no idea. I don't know if I want to leave or stay. Sometimes I am terrified that he will leave me...other times I would love to pack is crap and throw it in the front yard (I actually have done that twice now). He says that he never wanted to leave. That it was just sex and it was there and that it was stupid. No he did not know her before. He used her and dropped her which makes him a horrible person. He has agreed to full disclosure. He has answered all of the questions that I have asked and I believe most of what he said. He has agreed to counseling...although we haven't gone because there are only 2 within 40 miles of where we live and neither take my insurance. I have full access to his phone and email and I check it almost obsessively. I stalk the OW on Facebook because I am truly afraid that she is going to be pregnant. This is not who I am. This is not my normal behavior. Sweetz...looking over my shoulder and being afraid forever is not what I want and is actually my biggest fear. I have no doubt that he is sorry and that he intends to not do this again. I'm just not sure how long that will actually last. And I KNOW that he is very good at saying what he needs to say when he needs to say it. Steam I actually made him open a Facebook account so there will be no denying my existence in the future. Anybody that Googles him sees him standing with me. I didn't make it an option. Can you tell me more about the 3rd entity things?
Rae, I am so sorry. Everything you write is something we've all experienced, including the torment of feeling damned if you stay and damned if you don't. My experts recommend waiting six months at least before you make any long-term decision re. your marriage. You want to make a calculated choice and it's hard to do that when you're reeling. (Exceptions, of course, if you're unsafe or it's clear that he will hurt you further -- but that's doesn't seem to be the case for you.) In the meantime, counselling will be money well spent. It will give you the chance to really understand what was behind his crazy actions. "Just sex" is not the whole story but until he can really understand the story he was telling himself that made it okay, you'll not be able to trust that he won't do it again. Insight will help both of you decide whether or not the marriage can be rebuilt. You'll also get clearer on whether you can respect the man he's becoming or if you simply can't or won't. That's your choice. In the meantime, though we've all flung some pretty harsh words at our husband, I think what Steam is saying by treating the marriage as a 3rd entity is to ask whether you're helping or harming the relationship. What he did was devastating. But my guess is that berating him for it isn't moving either of you further toward healing, which is what you each ultimately want -- whether together or apart. Hang in there, Rae. Be gentle with yourself. Take the time to let the dust settle and see where you really want to be. This isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.
Rae...sometimes "just sex" is the hard truth of the matter. But it indicates a very shallow heart. Too many of our men grew up in the "free sex" culture and would develop a lifestyle of changing partners like changing underwear. They objectify women and see them as desirable body parts for their pleasure...so it does not surprise me that they cannot love deep enough to honor, respect and cherish the wife they finally decide to marry.
Marriage too often is a convenience for these men who are still thinking and feeling as though they are single with "benefits" in a marriage. That your husband used this poor girl like a hole and then tossed her aside like a used paper towel indicates that he has a very shallow heart. It probably WAS just sex. But then that begs the question as to why he could not wait until the weekends to have sex with YOU...even if for no other reason than to keep his own integrity.
Love is not what you say...because as you know, we can all say all sorts of things when the pressure is on...Love is what you DO when no one else is looking. You are going to become the "marriage police" for years to come unless your husband finds out WHY he can do what he did with no conscience or consideration as to how it would effect you. He did not make a mistake...he took each and every calculated step to deceive both you and that other girl. This is not like tripping over a crack in the pavement or balancing the checkbook wrong.
So yes...it is probably "just the sex"...but it is also "just me" that my husband has destroyed.
Rae, the not knowing if you want to leave or stay is so tough. It took me over a year to really feel comfortable in my decision to stay. I wanted so bad to save my marriage, and yet every day I thought about packing my bags and driving off and never coming back. It was a choice I made every day to not do that. I would tell myself, "I won't leave today, but the option is still open if I decide to leave tomorrow." Instead of making that decision for the rest of my life, I just made the decision for now. Trying to make a forever decision was just too much. Making a decision to give it one more day was doable.
And while I wasn't doing it to punish him, my husband finally had to be on the receiving end of not knowing where things stood between us. He didn't know every day when he came home from work whether I'd still be there or not. It helped me feel a little less powerless and a little less of a victim in this situation. I may not have had the choice of him staying faithful (that's on him), but I have the choice in what I do about it. It's totally okay and normal to have such mixed feelings. I went on big mood swings from, "We're going to make it," to, "This is hopeless, why am I even trying?!" As Elle has said on this site, crazy is the new normal after betrayal.
Have you spoken to your doctor about counselling? Often they know of more affordable options. We were able to find free community counselling that I hadn't even known existed.
Wow Gee...that is basically what the Lord was having ME do by impressing that I should wait a year. I had a whole year to just cruise along and wait to see if my husband would show some level of remorse, confession and honesty without any "prompting" coming from me. I told him what I expected from him three times...he simply will not do it. The closest he came was to say that "he can not measure up to my expectations".
Then, I realized that the end of THIS month, it would mark the end of the full year that I was "supposed" (and willing) to wait...and I would then need to go back to the Lord. But I secretly dreaded being "the one" who would have to erect the tombstone on the marriage...even though I have had plenty of time to know that it was inevitable. This decision was mercifully taken entirely out of my hands just in time...and without any provocation on my part. I am grateful. I cannot imagine the angst I would have felt having to file for divorce myself after hoping against hope for so many years. It seemed unnatural regardless...like having to put a seriously wounded dog out of its misery using my own bare hands.
Rae, sweetheart...if YOU are the one doing all the heavy lifting trying to make yourself comfortable and the marriage "work"...the one calling all the shots as to what "should" be done...with him just going along with "your" program, then something is wrong. Even if he goes along with your "needs/demands", HE should be the one seeking to find out WHY he could so easily do what he did/does. He should be the one too, ON HIS OWN, seeking out the answers for what goes on in his mind and heart. Right now, he may just be telling you what he thinks you want to hear...and he might be pretty good at that. So stop asking questions and let him ask his own questions...and get his own answers from someone who cannot be spun or manipulated...someone who has no skin in the game.
Take a year and see if he does this. Do not compromise yourself. Follow your heart and do not play the "pick me dance" for him. If you don't want him to touch you...make him wait until you ARE comfortable. You do not have to win any competition. Do NOT make him think that this time that you are willing to give the marriage is simply something that you needed so that YOU can "get over it". This...you do not ever get over. What you do get, if you are fortunate, is ample time to give to HIM for an opportunity to get an understanding of HIS morals and weaknesses...and perhaps maybe he will move you up a notch or two in his heart permanently. It is a gamble.
Rae. Elle is right. We had to decide what was good and what was bad for the third entity--the relationship. But my husband was remorseful as hell. He could hardly look at me without crying. And me? Between screaming I rarely stopped. But we were in therapy within 9 days of D day so our behaviors HAD to change immediately. Didn't mean we didn't talk. Didn't mean i didn't cry. What I had to do was figure out if screaming at him was good for the relationship. It wasn't of course and I did it anyway of course. But it was not my normal "mode" He really had to face why he did this. He had to learn why "just sex" was so much more. And yes it was just sex in the long run but that is just as hurtful as anything else. He had a long distance relationship with this girl (1 of 2 that got physical). But there were tons of others he reached out to. were coming up on 2 years of D day and it truly feels like it happened to two different people. But I owe so so so much to therapy. I am pretty sure we would not have made it alone. No one trains you for marriage. No one EVER expects to have to deal with an affair. Ir rocks you to the core. Crazy is crazy and you get to be that and your husband doesn't get to tell you that you are. This is his problem He is the one that stepped out. Please find options for therapy Please go. It won't solves everything but it might help And sweetz. Sorry your husband is such a jerk. I hope you FLY.
hi i found out in march my husband of 15 years has been sleeping with prositutes. Lied to me and the children. i am devasted heartbroken. He was my soulmate. We are trying to recover from this had counselling but i an struggling. I feel so alone.Unless you have been through this then no one understanda the pain in your heart.
Anonymous, We know the pain in your heart. Whatever your story is...we know that pain. Welcome to the club nobody wants to join. We're here. To listen. To support. To assure you that you will get through this.
Thankyou. I feel so alone. How do I move on ? when does the pain go? How can I ever trust him again? How could he do this to me to our family. I gave everything. Now I just need to heal for me as a person. I thought I couldn't cry anymore...
Anonymous, you're in good company here and you are not alone. I've just recently found this site and the compassion and support here is unparalleled. It's so normal to still be struggling, especially if you've felt alone throughout the past few months. I'll be praying for you! Hugs!
Hi ladies! I woke up yesterday feeling rather "stuck". I knew the holidays were going to be hard, but I had no idea until I woke up yesterday thinking how I always gushed about how grateful I was for my husband, compounded by the fact that we're about a week away from when he met the OW last year and 3 away from when he went down the slippery slope of exchanging numbers (does anyone wonder how much harder cheating would have been in the days before email and smartphones and if it happened less because accessibility was not as common?). I desperately wish I could go back in time to shake him and make him see what he had, because in the end, what happened is he started to feel entitled for how hard he worked, etc., and started to resent me for nagging about money, work, etc and failed to appreciate what he had, which he will readily say after he slowly came to that realization over the past few months. Anyway, I woke up yesterday (and today) feeling stuck. On Facebook, I like almost as many inspirational/Christian pages as I have friends, maybe more as I'm pretty selective about who I friend. The first thing that popped up yesterday morning was a quote that said "Stuck is a pit stop, not a full stop". Pretty sure that was meant just for me to see and I wanted to share it with all of you feeling stuck. Sometimes I get so mired in the stuck/hopelessness that I forget this is not our final destination. I hope that quote may help some of you as it did me. I'm so thankful I've found this site and for the companionship and wisdom shared here.
Out of the Ashes, I agree wholeheartedly. We think we're going to feel a certain way "forever". But sometimes we just need to pause and digest things before we carry on. Sometimes we need to listen more closely to our hearts. Sometimes we're just stuck and need to press pause before making any decisions.
Thank you guys so much. You have given me so much to think about. Steam we will definitely be seeking therapy next week. I don't know where this is going. I have given myself six months to decide and to see if the changes last. Sweetz I am so sorry for everything you have been through. Know you are in my prayers.
I also like the idea of the marriage being the third entity. Many times I've realized that I can make the decision to tear into him again because I'm angry, or I can instead find a more positive way to deal with it. While I may feel like hurting him, in doing so, I also hurt the marriage. And I want the marriage to survive. Sometimes I've taken the high road. Sometimes not. And every time that I've decided to use my words like weapons, I've regretted it. I can take him down with just a few words. And I might feel better. For about two seconds. Then we're both just upset and miserable.
That's not to say we don't talk about it, or that there aren't hard discussions with a lot of crying involved. But I have to choose between honest communication and pushing his buttons. It's very tempting to push those buttons, but in the end, I'm only hurting both of us.
Rae, Sweetz, Out of the Ashes, my heart is with each of you. It does get easier, and you are not alone. I've said some harsh things to h since d-day, but I'm doing better. I made him leave the house for six months for fear I would murder him in his sleep. I took a scissors to his lucky jeans, starting with the crotch, leaving nothing but threads (no, he was not in them). He earned his way back by taking full responsibility for his binge drinking, porn habit, and lousy judgment. I feel like I was there, I tell him. I feel like I was raped. He never argued, even when I was mean. A year later, I don't live there any more. My rages are less frequent, less intense. I have badgered the witness, and his story has not changed. I learned to respond with, "Part of me believes you." A friend suggested the six month rule, and it helped-- it saved me from the torture of "deciding" every day. IC, MC, and meetings. Medication for his irritibility (read: depression) was a game changer. A quote from Kathie Lee Gifford in People this year, re: her husband's detour: "If I had left him during his temporary insanity, my children would not have their father." I seek healthy role models and find plenty here at BWC. It helps. No one can decide for you, and we're here either way. Hugs to all.
Thanks Snowbird. It's nice to hear there is life after all of this. My H and I had a huge fight on Thanksgiving Day. I read in an earlier post about gushing over your husband in years past. I did the same. Last year it was look how lucky I am. Look how happy I am. This year I don't feel the same.
In that fight I told him that I don't know if I want to be married to him. I haven't said that to him out loud since I let him come home but it is the truth. I walked in on him crying later that night. That almost never happens and it was obvious that it wasn't something he wanted me to see. I wanted very much to go to him and comfort him and say that everything is going to be ok. I walked out of the room and closed the door behind me. I don't know what that means.
Dearest Rae, You don't have to know what it means when you leave h alone in his pain, or what comes next. He created this mess. Someone wise told me not to take the crisis away. Sometimes I would sit with h and let him cry and tell me how much it hurt (unless he was trumping my pain, in which case I would tell him not your turn right now, I'm the one hurting). Please be patient, and take good care of yourself. This is going to take a while. P.S. I usually post as snowblind, as h picked out a snowblower for his birthday (how symbolic) just days before he stepped out on me, which I promptly returned to the hardware store. I also called cable and canceled the sports package (savings: $100/month). I'll try snowbird from now on. Thank you for that. :)
Rae, I posted that and I'm with you, this year is totally different and in all honesty, Thanksgiving was a huge trigger day for me, and it sounds like probably for you too. I don't think you have to figure out what it means that you walked out, at least right now. I think it says a lot about what a good person you are that you wanted to comfort him in his pain, but yours is so fresh and huge that it's okay that you can't step outside of that to offer him, the source of your pain, comfort and that's perfectly okay and normal. Sometimes when my husband cries or is upset I want to do whatever I can to take his pain away and sometimes I'm glad, why should I be the only one shedding tears? I don't have any answers for you, but lots of empathy and prayers!
I survived Thanksgiving at the in-laws with my H and kids. The weather was crappy - not much time to myself, but I tried to have "some" time alone to just "be". There was a point when I lost it as my H found me in the kitchen with tears in my eyes...H says "come on, Smile"! This is one of the many comments he would say to me over the past 27 years ...more so I supposed during his relationship with OW. SMILE - really?? Can't I just have one damn moment where I can be sad without YOU telling me to SMILE? F#@K off. Seriously. So I went upstairs....to be alone. The holiday pressure is on - H has more traveling to cram in before the end of the year; his mom is not able to drive due to recent health issues, his dad CAN'T drive, hear or see well; No other sibling lives within 1,000 miles of his folks but us. H feels the pressure, gets more quiet...I let H know I am hear if he needs me. I will talk when he wants. H is sad his parents are getting old. But guess what?? His parents have been in this state for the past 6 years - H has been, well, otherwise occupied. I don't want the state of our marriage to add to his burdens - but I can't help but think H has put himself in this position. Denial of a lot of things - including the what to do about his parents. Now, I am working full time - I can't help (won't do it) for weeks out of town, on end. Because this only allowed him to carry on his relationship with that SKANK OW. Thank god I see my counselor this week - I NEED it. My H will have his 3rd session with his individual counselor, if he doesn't cancel. His perogative. We are back home and H is uncomfortable. Playing what I call the "there is nothing wrong" game. But I am tuned in - maybe too much to his "I am shutting you out" attitude as this is what got us where we are today. I HAVE NO CONTROL over any of this and I HATE IT. Everything seems so complicated, too much going on again...H's parents failing health, H feeling the pull to spend more time there, us trying to get into our new house BEFORE Christmas, H trying to wrap up end of year travel, ME working at a new job, NO family or friends (except my best friend and our two kids) knowing about our current struggles .... sometimes it all seems like way too much. I know "One Day At A Time" - I've known this since 5th grade. I am not good at it. Never have been. I'm just sad I guess tonight - for many reasons. Tomorrow will be another day. How can I be there for my H when H hasn't been there for me in 18 fucking years (whether I knew it or not)????
1998, It feels like too much because it IS too much. Maybe it's time to pare down to only what you need to deal with today. It's too easy to get overwhelmed with everything. What do you need to do today? What can you control today? Let go of the rest. The world won't grind to a halt because you don't have 23 balls in the air. It will mean living with that uncomfortable feeling in your stomach. That anxiety. But it won't kill you. And in the meantime, it will free you up to just focus on you. Your healing. What you need. To hell with the rest. At least for now.
Hi. I've posted as Anon over on the Finding out page but I'm thinking the original finding out is over and now I'm into sorting things out mode. I had a couple of silent gut wrenching sobbing on the floor realization days before I confronted him four weeks ago with solid evidence, I think that would be D-day? As I said over on the other page, he continued texting but did not see her after the initial two good bye meetings, as far as I know--- which isn't really much when you only have their word in the beginning. So I'm desperately looking for positives to save our marriage, which I believe I have some to hang onto. (I believe---for now?). I finally have access to his phone & Facebook messages with his knowledge, and his phone is tracking is turned on. Of course he could delete any that come in when I'm not there and he could call her when he's out with a no contact at home rule--on and on possible scenarios that my brain keeps churning out----. (OMG this is going to last awhile isn't it). The sad 'good' news is that two nights ago he had quite a few drinks and told me that "today is the saddest I've ever been in my life". Long story short, he told me the guilt makes his head feel like it's going to explode. He says he is going over and over "why" and what lead there. He is angry he was tracked/and had a PI follow him, yet in the same sentence says it's on him, he would have done the same thing is our roles were reversed. He also told me he is very depressed about his career and had a bigger vision for himself, which he has told me in the past as well. I feel so bad for him---but then I think of what he put me through. I saw some messages from OW that he showed me, that show how desperately in love she is with him as well as seeing a video from the PI where I could tell immediately that she was enthralled with him, the way she looked at him. I believe she planned on building a new career with him as well, so her future was becoming wrapped up in him, at least in her mind. For some reason, I don't hate her. I'm sure I will if I find out he is still seeing her of course!! Something that made me feel more 'sure' of his honesty that he is through with her, is that I found a deleted phone message from late morning of the day that he met with her to call it off the last time. (before the texting continued of course). CONTINUED BELOW
I'd never heard her voice before, it was surreal. She sounded wounded and trying to control herself telling him since her texts weren't getting through and he was not answering his phone that she had to leave this message and to PLEASE call her. He had told me she begged him to talk in person, which he gave into. I think the guilt he feels isn't for me, but for hurting her as well. He says I'm sorry every so often but not that he feels guilty for hurting me. I've been able to check his phone every morning which is when many of the good night messages were found and there haven't been any since Thanksgiving night. (maybe her family talked some sense into her and she finally mulled it over??!!) My big thing right now is he is Jeckyl and Hyde on being tracked. He HATES it. He made a comment on the way out the door "Have fun tracking me". When I say it's just to prevent me having to worry he says "I understand", but in not such a friendly way. He told me the night he was drinking that he knows he brought that on himself as well and that he's not going to act like he's happy about it. Fair enough I guess but he's making me more uncomfortable with it. I shouldn't have to be uncomfortable with it! I'm taking some of the advice from around here and not asking for extra old details but I find myself still in detective mode, which I believe would be prudent for a few more months at least anyway. I just wish I could do it without the adrenaline searches. Anyway, I'm so happy you all are here so we can support each other through this insanity that we did not deserve. Not fair!!
Anna, At a certain point, you'll have to stop the surveillance. The idea isn't to literally prevent him from straying but to encourage him to stop and think twice about any contact he might make -- to take that breath and really think through the consequences before he decides what action to take. While the PI might give you a measure of comfort right now, it's not a sustainable method for rebuilding trust. To do that, you're going to have to live with anxiety. If you truly can't trust him, then that speaks to whether you should be in the marriage with him. It can be really hard to listen to our spouse whine about their crappy lives when we want to scream "look at what you did to MINE!" But the fact that he's letting himself look critically and honestly at his life is actually a good thing. A big part of his role is figuring out what stories he was telling himself that allowed him to cheat. If his "story" is, "my life hasn't turned out, I'm miserable, etc. WITHOUT taking any responsibility for how things have turned out, then it's easier for someone to fall prey to an affair. The excitement, the ego strokes, the escape from reality. But if they can realize it's a story they're telling themselves...and take responsibility for why they're lives are like this, then they're more likely to make healthy mature choices. In any case, I know you're going through hell. And I know how terrifying it is to realize we can't control what they do (we never could, we never will). But that terror is your cue that you're trying to control something you can't. I would urge you to focus on you and your healing.
Thank you! I will take heed and try to focus on myself. I need to get over this obsessing, I'm not getting enough done to build my future at this point. As far as the PI, it was only just before D-day I hired them, not after. I just needed to be 100% sure before I confronted him because I didn't want more lies and confusion. He did turn the regular tracking on on his phone so I can see where he is. I'm feeling pretty trusting now but being able to check has already been great at heading off potential heart attack worry sessions. Just seeing he is where he says is a life saver for now. As far as his taking responsibility, he's got some ways to go I think. I'll keep an eye out for where he places the blame as time moves on. I like the way you frame it as the story he tells himself. He had/has quite a doozey going I believe but the details are yet to come.
Will we ever get to the point where we stop hurting each other? I'm just so sad. Today I came across a picture of us that was taken back in January when we attended a coworker's wedding. She had everyone's picture taken for her guest book and then sent us copies, which I received 3 weeks after DDay 1, when I believed that it was an emotional affair, 3 DDays before our final and full disclosure. It's a truly great picture of us and again, he wasn't super clear on when he affair started but based on his story, I thought it was taken right before hand. I promptly shared it on Facebook with a caption about what a great picture and probably something along the lines of it being a rough year, but grateful for him (seriously, I was THAT naive). Fast forward a few days later to DDay two when I caught them texting. Her ex had taken our picture, shared it on a fake page the two of them made up years ago along with a caption of "wonder if this was taken before he started talking to a 25 year old with two kids. He also sent me a private Facebook message about being heartbroken (they weren't together but he wants to be with her and I know now she was still sleeping with him along with my h). I didn't see any of that until after, but my h's story was that she had contacted him after seeing that her ex had done that and "don't worry, she deleted it". I found later she hadn't and saw the picture and caption. After full and final disclosure, I know now my husband had slept with her either a few days before or the day of her ex doing this, even though he supposedly was NC with her. I stupidly believed that she really had just reached out to him about that and he was livid when I found she hadn't deleted the page. Finding the picture today made me so sad, because he was over a month into his affair with her when it was taken, back when I thought life was great. I feel as though the picture was violated because her ex and her were using it to suit their purposes (my fb account has the highest privacy setting but I had posted that as a profile picture) and hey, I'm a little bitter that the last time he slept with her was when I was posting and thinking how grateful I was that we had a marriage to save, plus based on her due date, the last time was the time she got pregnant... I threw the picture in the trash. My husband saw it when he went to throw something away and asked my son why he had done it. I told him I had because it was the picture that was used and plus, joe happy was that time in our life since it was a lie? He left the room. I went to him and bit later and he said he as just hurt about the picture and was I going to throw every picture away from that time frame (well, sometimes it crosses my mind, so who knows?). I told him everything that had gone through my mind when I found it but did apologize for hurting him because it truly wasn't my intent and he apologized as well. But now, we're sitting in separate rooms of the house, with that between us. How do we stop the pain from tearing us apart? Why do I even care that I hurt his feelings after everything he's done to me? And why do I want to go bed him to start over this evening when I feel like he should be reaching out to me, knowing that I'm hurting more today?
Ashes, As much as we don't want to hear it in the early days, you're both hurting. And while I think your pain trumps his at the moment, that doesn't mean his isn't valid at all. Your response to his pain shows compassion. That's a good thing. Being in separate rooms when you each are hurting makes me think you're both mired in your own pain rather than reaching out to each other. Betrayal is devastating to the betrayed...but the betrayer, if he's a relatively decent guy, has to come to terms with what he's done, which is no picnic. Learning to share in each other's pain is part of a healthy marriage.
I'm so sorry, Out of the Ashes. It's difficult and painful, trying to keep loving the person who has hurt us so badly. Hugs - I'm thinking of you and praying for you.
I am just so sad. I don't know if my marriage will ever be fully healthy. The truth is things are better - time alone has helped (it will be 6 months) on Thursday. But we have also worked hard! We are able to talk calmly and listen, when it does really heat up when have a greater ability to recover. We had sex for the first time in years. We have a lot of love and commitment together. BUT, I know he is not 100 percent honest with me. He has so so so many trust issues and other issues from childhood. I don't think he is being malicious, but he is also not totally honest.
I don't know what to do with this. Will it get better with time and counseling??? Wait it out? Try to help? Force something? I often feel like a fool.
I do know and understand a good bit about his pain and struggles - and they are very real. But, I don't know if I can feel it. How do I hold space for his pain when I still feel so consumed by mine. Often the directions our conversations take, this is essentially his request of me. " I know I hurt you, but hold space for my pain". This seems super human. I love him so much and want to help. But I don't know if I can or even if I know how.
Becky, it's so hard and I'm so sorry you're struggling with this. Why do you think he's not being honest with you? how does he react when you confront him about it? Praying for you!
I'm sorry, Becky. I understand. I also feel the hopelessness wondering if we will ever have a healthy relationship. I love my husband, but what happened is always there, between us. And trust is always, always an issue. Our men ARE suffering, there is no doubt. But we can't heal their pain, and we feel overwhelmed trying to recover from our own. I don't know if we are recovering, or heading toward another blow-up. I know we're not happy. But we do seem to be better than we were a month ago... I'll be thinking about you today, honey. May you be blessed, comforted, and strengthened. Hugs!!!
Becky, In the early days, I think it's a matter of triage. You stem your bleeding as best you can and he focuses on supporting you through it. I do think your agony takes priority because he created this. A driver doesn't agonize over hitting someone without first tending to the needs of the person sprawled on the road. That said, I think you are recognizing that he's hurting. But he's hurting because of choices he made. You're hurting because of choices HE made. It's not the same thing. I'm sure you are "holding space" for his pain...but the devastation of betrayal consumes everything. I'm not sure he understands just how excruciating being betrayed is.
Thank you for responding - knowing you are here means so much. Elle, your right I really don't think he fully comprehends how excruciating this is for me and all I am doing to not dissolve into complete mess angry, hurt, fearful crazy person. I was that for about 3 months - but now at 6 months I really want to be repairing and healing in healthy ways.
With that said his pain is related to the affair but also so many other things - family baggage, death and suicide. Even though he doesn't totally know how hard this is for me he is doing his best to be supportive and is loving and committed. BUT - there is still not full honesty. He will not tell the truth about certain things and when I confront him he denies that he is lying and is super hurt that I am accusing him. (Ahhhhh). I think I feel angry and hurt because his best may not be all I need or deserve.
I am finding it super hard to stay present with my fears, to lean in or soften into my fears of emotional betrayal. It seems to much safer to act out - scream, interrogate him, snoop ect... But I am so tired of these actions and they exacerbate my fear and pain. How do we soften to fear and embrace trust even when it seems to be the scariest thing to do?
I know I can recognize his pain, but I'm not holding space for it.... I guess the question is can I find a way to soften with my fears and hold space for him. So he can gain some healing too and then be more able to fully support and help me. Sigh and sigh. Thanks for listening ladies... Love and support.
Becky I can relate. Sometimes it's hard for me to even acknowledge his pain when I can't even breath through my own. I don't know if his pain is even real. He has stopped discussing it with me. When he says he's sorry I can't help but think that he is sorry he got caught. He says that he was going to tell me himself but I don't know if I believe that. The hardest thing for me isn't so much that he had sex with somebody else or even the relationship...as it was. It is the lies. I now question every single thing that he has ever said to me. Can you love somebody and do this? Is that even possible? Am I kidding myself? On a brighter note. I made an appointment with a therapist. I did not make his appointment because it is important to me that he does it himself. He says he is going to. We haven't found a marriage counselor in our area but I hope that my therapist can recommend someone. Thanks you guys. Seriously.
Rae, So glad you've got an appointment with a therapist. That's your place to unload and work through all that pain in a way that moves you forward. Your questions will be answered. It IS the lies that ultimately do the most damage. He needs to show you, day by day, week by week, that he is rebuilding a marriage based on honesty and transparency.
Some people say what you want to hear rather than tell the truth. It's been two and a half years since DDay. First I was told things like they layed on the bed in the hotel, took their clothes off. Even her boobs, knickers etc where not all that! That she gave him a hand job in the first hotel as he didn't have a condom. I still think this was the truth but he now says nothing happened. She had a phone call while in the first hotel and had to go. That they didn't touch the bed and he went into the bathroom but came straight out again and said its not right and won't work in the second hotel I know they didn't have sex as he has ED and her husband was texting me st the time giving me info. He was more upset about me knocking on their front door and that she had messed around with a married man! Than the affair. He hates himself and wants us to move on. He is has completely changed as s person. To me it's not just that he found someone he really liked that hurts. Although he says he didn't know what he liked and that he didn't. It's that he's happy to spend that rest of our lives knowing he's lying to me. Am I so wrong to want to know the truth. Why can't I except the affair as the whole picture and except he wants me now more than ever in the past 34 years. He's sorry and will be for the rest of he's life. If he could un do it he would! But guess any cheater, murderer, rapist etc would when their caught!
Jane, No I don't think it's wrong to want to know the truth. It's one reason why I disagree with advice columnists (or well-meaning friends) who encourage a cheater to stop the cheating but not tell the wife/husband. I think we all deserve to know what our spouse has done that violates the promises we've made. Perhaps it's enough to know that he cheated on you. An emotional affair is a violation as much as a physical affair. But given that you're 2 1/2 years along and it's still bothering you, I think it needs addressing. It might sound drastic but women have insisted their spouses submit to lie detector tests (sometimes knowing the test is coming is enough to get them to come clean). My husband agreed to a "full disclosure" session with a therapist. I ultimately decided I didn't want any more disclosure than I already had. I had enough information: who, how long, where, etc. Anything else was just going to be agony. But YOU get to decide what you know and don't know. If he won't be totally transparent, then you have to figure out what you can live with and what you won't live with.
The truth is all I have wanted from the beginning. Just no more half truths, half-ass whatever. From the day I found out and then the two weeks it took to actually have proof he was lying - he still lied. I expect that. But it has been me the whole time that has been persistent in finding the real answers - the truth. So - as I told our marriage counselor - IT'S SO IMPORTANT to me to know WHY he didn't leave her, end the relationship (which he can now actually call it) for 18 years. Lynn has talked about an emotional time line - I NEED that. I know it sounds crazy - maybe close to pain shopping. But I don't think so. It's been almost 5 months since Dday. But it has been hell - and H's answers were always " I don't remember" or "I don't know why" etc - H can now say at the beginning "I thought it was just a fling" and "it was only sexual" - but H can't go further. H's comments were that after that it was just more "?" and it was easier to just stay in the relationship. Look - I can assume a whole lot from all of this. But I feel that my H needs to come clean and finally give me the respect he never showed for the past 18 years. Man-up and tell me - I want to hear you explain or at least tell me why you could not leave her until I found out. I need to know the depth of their relationship - what kept H there? This started when our two kids were 7 and 9 and today they are 24 and 26. His comment to me is - "I am working on it." "Just when I think we make progress - you do this". I do what? ASK for the fucking millionth time "WHAT KEPT YOU WITH OW". It's important for me to fill in the blanks. There are so many - and all he really wants to do is move on. Don't get me wrong - he is working, and is being more honest about a lot of things - but NOT what I have been asking, I told my H and counselor in our last meeting - I NEED this - It's something I NEED to process and help me move on. We are at an impasse. H almost wanted to tell me last night - but said he is afraid I will leave if he tells me. So everyone - I ask you.... what can be worse than knowing your H was involved with OW for 18 years of your 27 year marriage,
If the only way he thinks you'll stay in the marriage is if you don't know the truth about your husband's actions...then he's got a pretty crazy notion of marriage. You deserve to know what you want to know. It's that simple. To deny you the truth you're asking for is to disrespect you all over again. He doesn't get to control this, which is what he's trying to do. As Steam on this site has said (to great applause), "My heartbreak, my rules."
Becky and others who are stuck or new: I know that feeling so well, sadness that will not go away, feeling so much pain that you can't even see him in pain for what he's caused. It took months for me to see his pain as I wallowed in my own most of the time by myself as he was traveling every other week for work. The first six months his ow would not leave us alone to work through anything as she was so hoping to run me off so she could have him for herself even though he had told her in texts that he didn't want a relationship with her whether our marriage survived or not. Slowly after the nc order was signed by a judge for harrasment, my h and I began the slow process of first the timeline of the affair and then the root cause of the affair in general as to where h was in his head and heart. Once these hard issues were discussed not once but many times over several months then we could begin to find our way back to a relationship that feels more comfortable than we have had in years. Does that mean everything is great every day? No there are good and bad times just like there was before he chose to cheat as an escape from the pain and problems we were facing then. The holiday we just shared with our children was wonderful and bitter sweet and also two days after I had a meltdown and another screaming match but this time he was able to shut out the bad and discuss what the trigger was and help me through the tough time. I see his pain daily when he sees my sadness. As others have said he now has to live with the results of the choices he made and it's not easy being him. I on the other hand need to be strong for me not him. I have to find my happiness for me and I choose daily for it to include him to be 'us' again. Just like the beginning of the marriage, it's hard work then and especially now given the choices he made. But if you're BOTH working together hard for a better together way of life, time helps build a stronger bond between the two of you! It's a choice both have to make and it takes time, compassion from both parties and a true commitment just like it took in the very beginning of the relationship! Much love and hugs as each of us make our way back to a better way to live!
Theresa, Thanks so much for sharing that experience. What you describe is pretty much what all of us have gone through. It feels like it will never end. It feels hopeless. But we're moving along, inch by inch, even when we can't see it. I'm glad you're finding a "better way to live."
Elle I share because of you and your family of warriors have saved me from myself through the sharing of all the pain and ways of coping that may not work for all but together as a group that feels these emotions, I think it's the best place anyone can turn for validation of feelings and positive ways to deal with such pain! I thank you for all of these things!
So its been months since I posted. My H began reading my posts and I decided to stop as some of my comments he took wrong and caused issues. For the most part things are getting better but they got worse before they started to get better. After I outed OW to her family- husband and yes her adult kids (whether any or all of you think that was wrong for me to do or not, I don't know but I did- I had reasons for it also and her BH thanked me for doing it). So the reality of the A came out.....the very little amount he previously told me turned out to be initial PA back about a decade ago, he called it off, they still stayed in touch (because of her kids sport), after the sport was over, they remained secret friends (EA) and then in mid-late 2012 went physical again. He figured 10-15 times of sexual encounters with her. She said at least 20. He tried to kill himself again as the info piled out from his previously deleted messages on his phone that I retrieved. So, since then (April) we have been trying to rebuild. I still didn't feel like I had all the info. I asked questions still. He went to IC again.....his IC made some comments that literally sent me off the deep end. He was to find out how he could have gotten to the point where it was okay in his mind to completely destroy me and our relationship without a thought. I continued IC and we both went to someone together. I have come to realize what happened in his life to make it possible for this to happen. I was the one who had to tell the therapist what I thought and I discussed it with him. I am disillusioned with therapists. His IC spent 5 months (weekly) just finding out how the week went...what a money grab. I literally had a couple of aha moments where things started to come together. He needs to work on himself and the things in his life that led him to be capable of this kind of damage-both to his life and mine. He is trying. So, things were getting better. OW decided on my 50th birthday to give me a call to say "I just wanted to make sure you heard my voice today" She was annoyed that I didn't answer during the morning (we were on a plane to Atlantic City) so she left a message and continually tried to reach me live. About 2 weeks after that, she called me again and said "just because of the vindictive person you are" I hung up. She called my H, he didn't answer the first 5 times she rang, but then answered from being fed up (or at least this is what he tells me as I wasn't present and I asked him not to talk to her-but he did). She told him that she is going to make sure I feel her pain because she lost a daughter. Her daughter is getting married and she isn't invited. She believes that I am responsible for that as I told her daughter......her husband would have told her daughter anyway....I know this because he told me that he has been telling both of their kids for years that he believed that she was having an A....he would have told them.....I am sure he probably showed them her messages to my H that I provided for him as well as the pictures of my H's hand on her bare ass. So apparently she believes that my h and I had a laugh over the pictures.....yep, I think its hilarious that I found pictures of my H's hand on another woman bare ass- hilarious......worst day of my life hilarious.
Anyway, they screamed at each other for a while apparently. She said she is going to make sure I find out exactly what kind of person he is etc. I called him, he hung up on her and he told me about the call (assuming this is true and not another of his lies). So I said, if there was anything else he needed to tell me, he better come clean. So he said, he remembered recently that there were more parks involved in their meetings and once in a hotel (and I asked that question just the week before) and she was probably right with the 20 times and he was low. I freaked out at him of course....the hotel-she paid for as she was staying there for after her Christmas party and invited him. He admitted he knew he was meeting her there the day prior and that he was looking forward to it. I made him tell me what hotel and what other parks. I was re-traumatized all over again and have new mind movies now. He doesn't seem to be able to come up with anymore info until there is a real threat of me finding out. I contacted the police to start an incident report and told them I would follow through if she contacted me again. So, last week (a month after the last communication), she emailed me 8 times. Her messages. They started with "Just a reminder to never come between a mother and her kids" I responded with a F Off, you did it to yourself, she responded back with hatred. I told her I had contacted the police and to not contact me again. She threatened to tell them that my H took pictures of her without her knowledge (something I don't believe he can get in trouble for but am a little worried about) and then she said that we deserve each other because of the way we play with other peoples lives. Then after a few more tirades, she sent one many hours later saying " I can't wait for Christmas, can you" We took this to mean that she is planning on trying something at Christmas...maybe just and email who knows. She used her work email for 7 of the emails and I previously told her I would go to her employer as she used their number to talk to my H for hours and they met during her work hours (my husband got off at 2-3 and she worked until 5 at least). My H and I decided we would follow through with the police report if she contacted us again. Question- should I follow through now or wait....should I advise her employer about her actions while she is suppose to be working and her using their email address to harass? What are your thoughts on the Christmas comments? Any advise or opinions would be appreciated.
Lizzy My h and I filed a police report together with photocopies of all the many texts and emails including the threats that Facebook was not the only way to contact me with 'truth'. The fact that she is even thinking of revenge for Christmas makes me shiver remembering the terror I felt when I received her threats while my h was out of town. Once the judge signed the order she spent her night in jail, I slowly began to feel safe. Even though she continued to drive by our house for weeks. So yes my advice is follow up with the police and stand your ground for your own safety and peace of mind! Some of the ow are truly out of their right mind! Many hugs from someone who has worn your shoes!
Hi Lizzie, I am so sorry for the nightmare this woman has created for you. Please know that you were absolutely right to tell her husband. He deserved to know. SHE is the one responsible for this, not you. SHE made the choice. You simply alerted others to her choice. The fact that she's blaming you is simply more evidence that she's one messed up person. I think Theresa is right, though I have no idea how the police process works. Save every piece of evidence that she's harassing you. Document the phone calls. I agree that her comment re. Christmas is chilling. Who knows what she's capable of. She's having to deal with the consequences of her choices and she's not to happy about that. Well, welcome to adult life, OW. I wouldn't say anything more to her except, if you/your husband haven't already, stress that you are to have absolutely NO contact going forward. Do NOT respond to e-mails. Do NOT answer phone calls. Block her number. Don't give her any attention at all. And then show what you have to the police and see what they can do about it. Again Lizzie, I'm so sorry. Re. your husband reading on this site: I think that's really unfair. When you've found a place where you can get support and guidance, he should be happy for that. God knows, you need it. Re. therapy: Yes, there are some out there who aren't so good. But it also requires a willing participant. A therapist can't "make" someone spill their deepest feelings. If your husband was willing to sit, week after week, and simply talk about what happened that week, then he's at least partly to blame for the fact that nothing much got accomplished. There's also a period of time, of course, during which trust is established. Something to think about anyway.
Thanks. Theresa, sorry you had to go through this too. Day by day. Overtime the phone rings, I worry that its her.
Elle, we have blocked her on FB, her number in our cells, her emails now (she changed one) and I didn't think she was stupid enough to use her work email to harass someone but apparently she is. When she calls, she changes the phone to caller id unknown so the phone can't pick it up to block the call coming through. I have several clients that call as unknown so I have to pick it up. I have been hanging up as soon as I hear her voice. She usually gets the first sentence out before I recognize it as her unfortunately. I have saved all the texts, Facebook messages and emails and am keeping a record of the calls now (since my birthday). I even have pictures of the incoming calls on my phone and kept the phone bills as additional confirmation. Regarding therapy, I have spoken to my husband regarding taking some leadership in what he wants to accomplish. He is not good at that, he has been just taking her lead and telling her what I have asked from him. When he says I need to know how and why he got to this, she just keeps telling him that there will be several reasons and they never go further. He has some serious childhood issues that he needs to deal with and have contributed to his feelings of not measuring up and needing validation from others. I feel like the conversations between him and I have been more helpful then the therapists...this is his second. I believe a therapist should be able to navigate better then either. Our MC has been better at that but possibly because I have been present and know where I want to navigate.
Not sure why my replies didn't make it, I posted several days ago, but I will try to remember what I said. Theresa, sorry to hear you had the same problems I am having with crazy OW. My H has been receiving hang up calls again, not sure what we can do about it as they show as unknown. Elle, my H and I both agreed that we would avoid any contact with her at all costs. Problem is, when she calls, she changes her phone to unknown so our phones don't pick up the blocked number. He is not answering any calls that show unknown. I have many clients who call as unknown so I will continue to answer the calls, however, I should be able to recognize her voice pretty quick now, since she keeps contacting me and I will hang up immediately. We have blocked all the email addresses we know of hers also. I don't know if that will be sufficient or make her angrier. Who knows. My H has apparently discontinued reading here but I am not sure I believe him. My H isn't good at managing what needs to be done. He felt the therapist should be directing him where he needs to go. I have told him that he needs to direct her into the direction he wants to discuss but he just can't do it. When we both go, we have far better results. When my H asked his IC to start working on why he did what he did -he has asked several times apparently, all she says is- it will be many reasons and doesn't start to explore any. When he asked her about his childhood traumas etc, she just says, yes it will have played a role and then they go back to what he did during the week. After 5 months of weekly $180 per hour appointments, I lost my cool about it. She has said numerous things that set me off....including that I talk about his A too much (when I have recorded questions for weeks and not said a word for weeks to avoid talking about IT all the time).....I got angry. When she said "I don't mean to minimize her pain but"......I lost it. We have agreed that we should go together. Its very sad that I, someone who is completely untrained, was able to ask enough questions, listen to enough information, do enough research to figure out what took place....yes I have a bit of an advantage as I have been living with him and can see some things from our life together but it just seemed like a complete waste of thousands of dollars. Two different therapists also.
Hi Lizzie, Whenever a thread gets over 200 comments, my blogging platform won't publish them so they only show up when I delete earlier comments in order to make room. Sorry about that. It's an annoying glitch that I can't do anything about. You'll notice that I created a Part 11 threat because this one is pretty much full. Anyway...there are, unfortunately, some lousy therapists out there. My thinking is that if your husband doesn't feel as though there's a good connection within three visits, then move on. And comments like "don't want to minimize her pain but..." tells me she hasn't a clue how to support someone re. betrayal/cheating. Nonetheless, you sound like you've got a good handle on this and are creating positive boundaries for yourself. When you can get this lunatic OW out of your lives, I think things will improve dramatically. Soon, I hope.
Oh my Lizzie, what a roller coaster for you. If I was in your shoes I would probably follow through with the police report and tell them everything, including about the pictures. I think that would be very much a he said/she said situation and if you/he are upfront about it, then it looks better than her accusations later. I would be concerned about the Christmas comment as it almost sounds like a threat for something more than just additional contact. I'm not sure I'd approach her employer, at least until after talking over the situation with the police. That could really set her over the edge and it sounds like she's starting to feel like she has nothing to lose with her actions towards you and there's a very fair chance the police may contact her employer depending on how thorough they are with the investigation. Good luck.
After talking with my H, it would appear (assuming he is telling the truth) that he tried to stop numerous times and she went crazy on him, including calling him names etc. He said she would go crazy texting him stuff and then a couple of hours later, she would be all apologetic and tell him how much she loves him etc. Seeing how she is harassing me, I think I believe it. Also, in the deleted texts, I could see some where she was frustrated that he wan't answering his phone or her texts and was avoiding meeting with her. I knew her a decade ago and she has always been nuts....too bad my husband couldn't see what almost everyone else we jointly knew saw in her. My H is so worried about Christmas, its affecting his mood. He is worried all the time and checking over his shoulder etc. It seems to be me she is after some kind of revenge from though.
I don't believe he can get in trouble for the pictures-even though he took them without her consent. I did some research and it appears that you are considered to be forfeiting your privacy when you are being intimate in the middle of the day in a public park or parking lot....sexual or otherwise. Being inside a car doesn't change that fact. So, I could have hired a PI and they would have been able to take pictures, a kid in the park could have taken a picture of them together and so could a pervy old guy sitting on a park bench. No faces are shown and the pictures only show his hand on her partially nude ass......nothing more. H told me that when they had it out on the phone she asked about the pictures and he said he doesn't remember even taking them.....then she says "you two must have gotten a real laugh out of them" yep...I thought they were hysterical....I got a kick out of seeing my H's hand on another woman's bare ass. She is certifiable IMHO. I think if and when we decide to go to the police to follow through, I will see what the police say about her employer and approach them after seeing what the police say. My H is in a bad place because he is worried about what her plans are. Unfortunately, a part of me sees this as possibly being worried about what else I will find out, not just her ruling Christmas. I guess that feeling is justified since he has not been forthcoming with information until I discover more on my own....although recently he did disclose a little more info (but only after he knew OW was going to try to tell me more info). My life really sucks now. I love my H and our life right now is better however, the past and what he has done is eating away at me AND him bring crazy into our lives makes me very resentful.
Thanks for the comments. My preference would be to not have to do either and just get on with my life. She doesn't seem to want to go away. My H is concerned about what her plans are for Christmas. A few of his comments have bothered me however. He has said he is worried about her sending me lies. I tell him that I know she is capable of telling all lies so what is there to worry about. Our plan is to not look at anything she sends or hang up if she calls. I too am concerned that she is planning on taking it to a new level but I don't know what that would be. I told him if he has nothing else to hide then there is nothing to be concerned about me finding out. He says he is worried that she will get a pile of lies through to me and I won't believe that they are lies. I don't know if thats true or that there is more she can prove to me that will upset me. I sure hope he is telling the truth as I don't think I could take anymore to be honest. Its probably a good idea to talk to the police and get their take on everything including the employer situation. Since the emails are from there, they may need to talk to them but I think their initial reaction is just to go visit and talk to her. My H says he will take whatever is coming his way due to the pictures. They are literally pictures of just his hand on someones bare ass, pants/undies partially pulled down....no faces. I have tried to read on the repercussions of it, and it appears that all privacy is forfeited when you are doing something (even having sex) in a public place and in a car in broad daylight in a public place is considered a public place. The car does not make it private. Without her knowledge is the part the bothers me however, the forfeiting of privacy would also mean that someone outside the car could be taking pictures and you can't do anything about it because you are doing it in a public place. Also, he didn't distribute them anywhere, he deleted them on his phone and forgot that they are auto saved to his computer (where I found them). So I think he is okay with that and quite frankly, maybe I don't care if he get in trouble for that....serves him right for doing it and that seems to be his thinking. She also admitted to me that she sent him pictures of her in her bra...unfortunately I don't have that in writing. I am hoping she is bluffing but I don't think so.
Wow - when your brain is totally fried by betrayal it is really hard to get even simple concepts. If I take steps to heal myself then the ability to feel my husbands pain will come as a byproduct. So I should really do healing things for me and stop crappy actions that make me more fearful and hurt for my own sake. Also, if we are both working really working in the relationship, time will be on our side. THANK YOU Theresa!!!! Your post really helped make this clear for me! Thank goodness for this site and all the hard earned experience and wisdom here. Somedays it is just so exhausting and confusing!!!
Phoenix - hang in there, we are stronger than we realize and we can be kind to ourselves. Around 3 months we were having more hopeful and better days, but they would be punctuated with some really terrible days that were very discouraging. I am thinking of you.
Block her! Block the hell out of her. You never need to see or hear another message from her again. Let technology silence her for you. It won't stop her from showing up face to face if she can find you but at least that means she has to work harder to be a pain in your ass.
I am sitting in our bed watching my H sleep. I don't know the last time I slept like everything is fine so I guess I envy him. Today was a good day. The first good day in weeks. H has taken it upon himself to start using the GPS on his phone to show me where he is at random times during the day. He says to ease my mind...and it does. So why do I go from feeling almost ok to sitting here smoking...I am not a smoker...and wondering what in the hell I am still doing here. I am so lost and so alone. When does this get better? When do I get to have my life back?
Rae, I can so relate. My husband escaped constantly into sleep, whereas I struggled to sleep at all. Depression manifests itself in opposite ways for us. I lose my appetite, he comfort eats. I can't sleep, he sleeps every moment he can.
Our counsellor told us that when things start to go back into a somewhat normal routine, it can be really hard to deal with. Even though normal is what we've longed for! At least for me, normal feels dangerous, because everything seemed normal and my husband was living a double life and I didn't know it.
I wish I could give you a specific timeline as to when you feel like you get your life back. I find that's fluid, there's some days I feel like I have, and some days when I wake and think, "How is this my life?!" Although it's slowly getting less often as time goes by. I know time feels like a four-letter word right now. Lots of hugs. You're not alone.
Rae, First off...the day will come when you do feel better and hopeful and you're not going to want smoker's breath and potential lung cancer to get in the way of your new joy. So put out the cigarette. Second, the timeline for healing is different for all of us...but, I would suggest, longer than any of us ever imagined. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Just keep doing your work, focusing on your healing and trusting that each day brings you a bit closer to the point when you feel that this is behind you. Let him do his work. This IS your life...it just sucks right now. But when it stops sucking you'll realize how strong you are and how smart you are. In the meantime, as Churchill said, when you're going through hell, keep going.
I cried today strike that sobbed.. first time in months ... 7 mo out. Guess im just having a day of feeling the pain. I so badly dont want to be stuck! This too shall pass.
Am I an odd ball for not wanting to know any details 5 weeks after D-day, only one week since the non contact was finalized? I do know more 'places' and general information than he even knows I know, but no real details at all. I see that this helps many heal and although I WANT to know, I'm already ready to move on and am afraid it will create more for me to worry over and not less. Will this cause me problems as time goes on I wonder.
Anna, We each get to decide what we want/need to know. I don't think you're an oddball at all. I got to a point where I made the choice to NOT know more than I did. I realized it wouldn't help and would likely hurt my healing. You might want to know more as time goes on or you might be content with what you do know. Ultimately all we really NEED to know is that our spouse cheated.
I don't know what I'm supposed to think or feel today. My husband and I had a date night Friday night. We were just finishing up eating dinner and were talking. I was looking at my phone as my mom had just texted something about our son and he had pulled his phone out to look at a text. When I asked him to read what my mom had sent, he had his phone facing away from me. I said "why do you have your phone tilted away from me, who is it?" He said it was one of his employees and he didn't tilt it away on purpose, but when I asked him to show me who it was, he flipped out. He told me I know it aggravates him when I don't believe him. I told he gave up his right to get aggravated about asking to see his phone when he cheated on me and told him I was done, to take me home. We fought in the truck the whole way home. He was insistent that he has nothing to hide and he is not talking to her at all. When we got home, he told me to get out, he was dropping me off, but not staying to keep fighting. I refused to get out of the truck and told him I wasn't doing this anymore, if he really isn't talking to her, then he would know that it was his stupid pride that ruined us because any trust I might have been rebuilding in him was just ripped away from me. I got a lot of things off of my chest that have been building for a while and he sat there and just cried and listened. Finally, I got out of the truck. He drove halfway out of the driveway and backed up and just sat out there. I went out once, to tell him a few more things that popped into my head about his actions that evening and then I came in and went to bed. I just don't have the emotional energy for this anymore. He came in after a while and turned a song on he wanted me to hear "even though it probably doesn't mean anything now" and left the room. The song was something about looking past pain and blame to the love left behind, I'm not sure I got it all because in all honesty, it pissed me off. Easy for him to say to look past the pain. I went out to the living room where he was laying on the couch and laid out my boundaries and my thoughts. He cried about how selfish he has been, he said most of the time it does not bother him at all when I look at his phone or ask him who was on it and he doesn't know why it did this time. We talked for a long time about the affair, the other woman, the baby, on and on. I don't know why I believe him or felt as settled as I did that evening, other than I again laid out my boundaries and was also able to listen to him think out loud about the effect his actions have had. We spent the weekend together and for the most part, it was really good. We went to my sister in law's house and on the long drive there, he brought up the subject of the affair and how he could have gotten to the point that he did and the type of man he wants to be in the future. I don't know why I'm leaning towards believing him, but I am.
Am I crazy? He's lied so many times (4 ddays before the full and final disclosure) and his actions Friday night screamed suspicion to me. Is it possible that he just reverted to old behaviors for a time? I'm sitting here today trying to decide if there's something I'm not seeing because I don't want to or if I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill because I'm scared of missing the signs like I did before. He seems truly sorry and like I said, has been bringing it up himself because he knows I'm bothered, which is something he normally never does, we don't typically talk about the affair or the baby unless I broach the subject or we're in counseling. He's also said a few times how sorry he is because he knows he's ruined any progress I've made in my ability to believe him or trust him and that's a price he has to pay for being stupid and selfish that evening. I'm just so confused. I really do believe in us and our ability to heal, but again, I also never could have imagined my husband would be one that could carry on a deception of this nature for so long and continue to do so even after the first dday. How do you tell the difference between intuition and fear? I feel like my intuition is saying that he's telling the truth and just screwed up, but I'm also freaking out that I'm just burying my head in the sand...
How is intuition different than fear? Thank-you for asking: http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2015/10/fear-vs-intuition.html In the early days, you're in shock and dealing with the trauma. It can be really, really hard. You get to lay out the ground rules and he either follows them or not. But if he won't, then you get to determine the consequences. This is about your healing. It's not about controlling him, it's about respecting your own boundaries and healing. I don't doubt that it feels humiliating to him. But that's nothing to the humiliation you feel. He needs to work a bit harder on empathy and little less on self-pity. He created this situation and, at any point, there's the door he can walk through. But if he's choosing to stay, then he's got some tough work ahead to help you get through this.
" I feel like my intuition is saying that he's telling the truth and just screwed up, but I'm also freaking out that I'm just burying my head in the sand... "
Me too. It is so hard. The roller coaster of trust and doubt is so --- I don't even know. Nothing else like it though. Take care of yourself.
Every time I read these posts, I see myself. I get triggered, I get stuck, the mind movies loop in my head. I refuse to wear my ring, I locked his up too. I tell him they are defective, served no purpose, plus his has cooties. Learning about the secret porn habit (d-day 2, how clueless am I?) did have an upside: It diluted the power of the ow. Now she's just one more object, one more drug, one more escape. Her vagina has lost its magic. So there.
ReplyDeleteSnowblind,
DeleteI find the same. I see myself in many of the posts. In the very early days, reading that others were experiencing the same things made me feel less crazy. And then when I got to the point where I finally realized that I wasn't actually crazy, there was comfort in knowing I had this place to share my feelings with others who "get it".
You make a really great point about the power of the OW being diluted. When we realize that most often they were a means to an end, it helps to take away some of the notion that we carry that they were special. My husband told me all kinds of lies which I believe he may have even convinced himself of until the fog cleared. Reality was, much like many others here, that his use of porn created issues. Our marriage wasn't stellar nor was our sex life, but he had his porn to fall back on. So when someone new started at the office and came in regularly dressed like a hooker and begging for the attention she claimed she wasn't receiving at home, he had the perfect opportunity. And the bonus for him was that she behaved like a porn star.
Until all of this became clear to me, I truly believed she meant something to him. The real truth is she was an object. He used her and she tolerated it because he showed her attention and complimented her. What a sad way to live.
You're so right, Dandelion. The fog, the porn, the perfect storm. My brain tries to solve it with logic... she must be amazing, right? Totally irresistible? Not even close, but I still want to throw things at the porn posters in the window at Victoria's Secret. I can finally walk by without a complete meltdown. He must have wanted to destroy me, or why in the world would he have done this? H looks at me now and says, "Come back. I'm right here." He's determined to make things right. I make him tell me that he's here because he loves me. If I could tell ow one thing (and I won't) it would be this: "Real women look out for one another." Period. Thank you Elle and all at BWC for looking out for one other, and for me.
DeleteSnowblind and Dandelion,
DeleteThe insanity is a huge part of the betrayal. Like Frank Pittman said in my most recent post, the OW isn't usually a prize. She's available. She's a distraction. That's it.
But Snowblind, if you find yourself triggered here, then perhaps you need to take a break from it. We're always here if you need support or a question answered.
Dear 1998,
ReplyDeleteIt is good that you can share with Alone and offer encouragement. From what you are going through, besides have an asshole husband who lied so good it sounded like the truth, you are getting through each day even though it might not seem like progress it sounds like beautiful music. You are getting yourself together, glad the job is getting you up and out. I was at work but really couldn't focus for a year. Random crying while on site with clients. Look at how strong you are with or without him. Hang in there. Your moment of clarity will come. I know it. Mine took 18 months, I sat on the fence for a long time until I knew what I wanted. Is your husband coming around at all? Is he showing you he has changed? Take care and I send good thoughts your way.
I don't know where else to vent this. I got so triggered last night. My husband had unprotected sex with OW (the last time in May), resulting in her pregnancy and now both of us are presenting symptoms of a possible sexually transmitted infection, a very treatable one if that's what it is, but still. The doctor's advised us not to have unprotected sex until we are both cleared, so last night we went to buy condoms because we feel regular sex is vital to our recovery. My husband was trying to be flirty and joking around about buying condoms, who was going into the store to get them, and wow, I didn't know they sold them at gas stations, etc. I appreciate his effort, but I just wanted to scream at him because if he'd taken condoms more seriously when" it just happened" those couple of times with her, then she wouldn't be pregnant, we probably wouldn't have to worry about sexually transmitted diseases and I wouldn't have to worry about wearing condoms with my husband, the only man I've been with in eight years. UGH. My counselor has recommended that we set a few times a week as "free talk time", to discuss the affair, pregnancy, etc., so I was trying not to say anything and was going to journal it this morning to talk about, but when he touched me last night, I just froze. He asked if it was because I wasn't feeling well or because of him, so I told him everything and just cried. He was super supportive and just held me and kept apologizing, which is what he needs to do. I just feel like some of these hurdles are insurmountable. Just when I started to be able to enjoy sex again and get her out of my head in the bedroom, these symptoms (which to be fair I've probably been ignoring for some time and just now talked to him about) popped up and now this feels like it will last forever. The weird thing is it actually feels like we've bonded some over it, together in a crisis I suppose, but still. First the affair, then the pregnancy, then the possible STD. I refuse to let his actions and his affair destroy me, but some days it feels like this roller coaster is never going to end. And I feel bad, because I know he was truly trying to joke around and connect through laughter and because it triggered me, it had the total opposite effect. I'm sure its discouraging to him as well since he is trying so hard.
ReplyDeleteOut of the Ashes,
DeleteIt's funny..because where you see a night that was a failure, I see a night in which you were able to express your pain and he was able to hold you in it. That's amazing. And it's those moments that will lead to laughter and mutual compassion. The hurdles are absolutely tough, to be sure. But you're both clearing them.
I'm definitely 'a whole lotta stuck'! And a bit surprised to be feeling this way again after two years. In the past, when I've had a trigger or situation that has caused me to lose ground, I've desperately searched for insight into what I was experiencing and found comfort and hope for further healing - you ladies are amazing! This time I just feel done. I've found several blog posts, comments, passages in books, etc. that are speaking to me right now; but I simply don't feel the energy or motivation to act on anything. And in the grand scheme of things, the event that has left me feeling completely done is miniscule in comparison with the affair. As part of our healing journey, my husband and I read 'For Men Only' and 'For Women Only' by Shaunti Feldhahn. Brilliant books that have been a huge help to me and my husband. In 'For Women Only' Shaunti goes into great detail how men are visual and what that means for them on a daily basis. My husband has a married male friend that frequently texts him jokes, funny photos, etc. A lot of them are definitely less than tasteful, but I just excuse them as 'boys' bathroom' humour. Recently this friend sent a photo of a very attractive young woman seductively clothed and posed. My husband then forwarded this photo to a single male friend as a 'here's one for you..." I lost it. We've had several conversations since about integrity, and men's very visual tendencies, how my husband is specifically, etc. In all fairness to my husband, since the affair, he has been amazing in our healing journey. Doing everything 'right', with sincerity and true love from his heart. But I can't get past the photo... And what it says to me about his integrity. He's since asked his friend to cease sending these texts, but I feel like it's too little too late. Even as I type this, I feel like I'm being petty. But this feeling of being done won't go away. I absolutely can't bring myself to be vulnerable with him. I can't even hold his hand. For our boys' sake, we're doing our best to keep the status quo. If we could separate, I would. But very few people know about the affair, and we want to keep it that way. I'm able to be 'normal' with him, just not intimate on any level. And I have no desire to try. I'm exhausted. Normally at this point, I'd be asking for help, but I don't know if I even want to hear an answer. I guess I must be looking for something if I'm sharing how stuck I am, but I don't feel I have the energy to act on any advice...
ReplyDeleteCat
Anonymous 5:16 - Sounds to me your right to be concerned. I would consider this seductive girl text playing with fire. Flirting in a way. Ask you husband what would he consider crossing the line? I read where H are more likely to cheat if their friends think it is no big deal. You idea of a boundary and his maybe different. If his friends are flirts with the thought that affairs are no big deal. I might set a few boundaries. At least he didn't delete the text, so it is not a secret type of text. He just needs to know this is a root canal sensitive thing right now, maybe not in the future but right now it is. How can he be so insensitive that he thinks looking at a picture of a young seductive woman doesn't pull you back into "how could you do this to me world ?" At least he set boundaries with his friends so give him some credit for that. Your not being petty just smarter.
DeleteCat,
DeleteNot petty at all. Your response is making it clear to you that a boundary has been violated. You need to respect that boundary and do exactly what you've done. Make it clear to him that you find that sort of behaviour disrespectful to your marriage and disrespectful to you. (Frankly, it IS disrespectful. What are these guys -- 15?)
Take some time too though to figure out if this is a symptom of something larger -- a broader feeling of disrespect for women in general, or a cavalier attitude about flirting, for instance. Use this as a chance to get clearer on what you expect from him as your partner. Personally, I recognize that my husband is going to notice an attractive woman. But I expect him to behave like a gentleman, which includes not passing along photos of women. Especially when lines have been crossed in the past.
There is this article on the NY Times opinion about someone wondering if they should tell the partner about a friends affair.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/magazine/should-i-tell-my-friends-husband-that-shes-having-an-affair.html
It made me think how few people understand what it means to be the betrayed. I know that having other's keep secrets from me was one of the deepest traumas of my betrayal. I am sure others here may have a different take, but it makes me wonder where the voices of the betrayed are. Most of the comments fail to take into account how traumatic betrayal is. Most of the experts gloss over the pain. Where can we put our experience out there? I wonder if someone/Elle could compile an anthology of women and men who can share their experiences. Such eloquent voices here.
MBS,
DeleteOh my GOD, this stuff drives me nuts. I recently wrote a note to an advice columnist at O Magazine who offered up the advice to a woman that she shouldn't disclose anything because, "maybe they have an agreement" or "maybe she doesn't want to know". Stay tuned. I'm going to post the letter I sent to her as a blog post in the next day or two.
Thanks for sending this.
Cat, you're exhausted and you're burned out. And probably depressed, like so many of us here. Is it any wonder you lack the energy to keep trying? We are having to expend more effort than we ever have before to preserve our relationships, at a time when we have the least amount of will and energy to do it. Come on, we're only human. And tired, sad, disillusioned humans at that. Don't push yourself too hard. If you don't feel like "fixing" it right now, don't. Rest and give yourself a break.
ReplyDeleteWe've got the holidays coming up, folks. For some of us, the first holiday season since Dday. We've got to smile and plan and cook and shop and be there for our kids, families, and friends. Maybe Elle and some others who have been through it will have some advice on how to deal with that. Right now, my H and I are just taking it day by day. We are both depressed and bitter, and trying to hold things together. Sometimes I'm hopeful. Sometimes I wonder why we are trying. I can't watch a movie or read a book without being triggered. He is becoming secretive again, I think as a reaction to my hyper vigilance, but who knows? We talk and hug and spend time with our kids and make love, but separately we brood.
I know the holidays will have a lot of triggers, but I'm hoping there will also be some joy, some hope, some redemption.
Phoenix,
DeleteI you look through the archives, you will find quite a few posts on surviving the holidays, though I suspect I'll write something again (though I'm in Canada so our Thanksgiving has come and gone).
But given what you and your husband are experiencing, I would urge you to carve out some time to just be together rather than brooding separately. Even just a walk after dinner, or a coffee together in the morning or something like that, just to stay connected even when things are tough.
I love the compassion, connection and support shown here! I read the stories and struggles you all have faced and, for many, overcome. My heart breaks with your pain and rejoices in your victories! The biggest area I am struggling with now is the overwhelming sadness I feel. I'm gonna sound like a whiner here... I am @ 20 months since D-Day. You'd think after going through this 3 times with 3 different husbands I would be able to deal with this better. But, dammit!! I truly was happy! And now when a memory comes to mind or I see a picture from before D-Day, instead of just enjoying it, the first thought is, "That was back when I was happy."
ReplyDeleteI have a picture on my phone of our dog taken the morning of D-Day that I texted to H, hours before I found out. That is my border between Then and Now. I look at every photo prior and I can still remember how good I felt then. Oh what I wouldn't give to actually feel that way again. I can have good times now, but I seriously don't know if I can experience joy again. Everything I see and feel now just seems to run through a broken lens.
The worst part of going through this is knowing that time will heal, but after almost 2 years you'd think I'd have made some progress. I know there's a hope for things to get better. I just can't see it yet.
Blinders,
DeleteYou're essentially a betrayal veteran with three tours of duty under your belt. And now you're paying the price for all that trauma in the form of overwhelming sadness. I think your response is perfectly normal...but that doesn't mean you want it to last. Have you gone through any therapy to help you process all the pain you've gone through? I think many of us have that "before" and "after" feeling. And 20 months actually isn't all that long in the healing trajectory. But I think what you're describing is feeling stuck in that place. And that's where I think a therapist who acknowledges betrayal is often creating post-trauma symptoms can help you. I hope you'll consider it.
Elle,
DeleteThanks for your response. I am very willing to go to counseling. The problem is affording it. It was shortly before the affair when I took a huge pay cut and we had to struggle a bit with 4 teenaged kids between us, one of them in college. We had to buy his books for college and were trying to figure out how. Enter OW...she gave my H the money for his books (out of the goodness of her heart, I'm sure) soon after was when the affair started. Then she started her campaign of belittling me and telling him how worthless I was and he deserved SOOOO much better...I know, I read every text. Told him II looked like a barrel with a pig face and that she wanted to follow us to church and sit behind us and make pig noises. Now, I'm a size 14. I've always been self conscious, so you can just imagine how those words effected me. H and I also run a nonprofit for the homeless. She said if he left her she would ruin our reputation in our community. She even began doing just that one night, typing posts on Facebook just as fast as he could delete them. He begged her to stop but she kept it up. That was the night he said to me that he had to run to our office because he may have left coffee pot on. That was the night he tried to kill himself. A week in hospital and another week off from work. D-Day 2 weeks after that. Then lost my job completely. 2 months searching for another, laid off after 8 weeks. Found my current job that I've been working for 14 months, but it is slightly more than minimum wage and slightly less than full time. So, I guess short story long ;) , there is barely anything left in the budget to pay the bills and eat, let alone counseling. I keep hoping we will catch up with past due stuff and can talk to someone. But I am also afraid it will be too late, too.
Oh Blinders, You have been through such incredible hell. What a horrible toxic person she is.
DeleteYou mentioned that you go to church: Is there a minister or priest with whom you could speak? Many have heard so much and gained insight into such emotional pain that it might support you.
To be honest, we continued going to church for about 6 months after D-Day. Every time I walked into the building and members of the church would greet me and hug me I would burst into tears and cry through the entire service. Since I did not disclose to anyone what was going on I just ended up looking like a crazy woman! Then when I got my current job I worked a lot of Sunday mornings, and when I did have one off I just didn't have the energy or strength to go. I know it would probably be beneficial to go, but it's been a year now.
DeleteI feel as if I've done a huge injustice to myself and my marriage by not allowing myself to express anger to H in the beginning because my first priority was him because he was seriously in a bad place. I don't have much fear that he will have anything to do with her because of her tortuous behavior towards me for 10 months following D-Day...sending me evil letters every few weeks and even going as far as having some of her friends send me nasty notes because I had blocked her. But, I digress... I didn't really ever get to feel and get answers that I needed early since I focused on his recovery, and maybe that is why now 20 months later I'm obsessed with the pain again. But it seems kinda pointless to dredge it all back up to him now when we seem on the outside to be doing better. (aside from my frustration over total lack of sex...) Idk, maybe I should just accept his friendship and companionship and just go buy more batteries!!
Blinders,
DeleteIt's NOT too late. And, I would argue, not addressing all that pain you're carrying around is just allowing it to fester. There's nothing wrong (and a lot right) with telling your husband that you gave him the space to get to a better place in his life...and now he needs to do you the same service. It will undoubtedly hurt. And be careful about what you ask -- make sure you really want/need the information and are not just pain shopping. And then...talk. You can set a schedule -- half-hour daily for a week. Or two hours on a Saturday, or whatever works. But you need him to hear your pain and you need to hear his story.
Re. church: It sounds as if you were among a really supportive compassionate bunch of people. No matter that you were crying. My guess is nobody thought you were crazy. They just realized that you, like so many of us, were going through a tough time. Consider going back...or at least seeking out a priest/pastor with whom to share your pain. It gets awfully heavy carrying the load ourselves.
Dealing with life seems like such a huge effort. I feel like telling people. "I'm struggling with soul crushing betrayal right now; can I call you back?" Or leaving on my voicemail "my life has been sucked into a black hole, please ring back in 6 months". (Sigh).
ReplyDeleteI hope through this I will be a more compassionate person and be sensitive to those in struggle.
Becky,
DeleteAt first, the priority is triage for your own broken heart and soul. When you're bleeding, you dress the wound. With time, I've no doubt you'll feel a strong sensitivity for those whose pain you know all to well. Be gentle with yourself. Soul-crushing indeed.
I'm feeling "stuck", mired in my bitterness and rage. My H insists that he is still "in love" with the OW, even though he loves me and has chosen to break off with her. I realize it could be a lot worse, but knowing he still has feelings for this...person, whom I find so despicable - it eats me up inside. I never thought I could feel such anger and hate. I know my feelings are understandable. At the same time, I know they are irrational. It's like a poison in my gut. I don't want to hate this much. He says he loves me, he never intended to hurt me, and he deeply regrets the affair. I need to hold on to that, and stop thinking about the skank. I need to stop giving her the power to hurt me. But like a child, my heart keeps crying out: it's not fair! She doesn't DESERVE his love. She's a sneaky, selfish person who broke my heart and destroyed my world. She's mean and heartless, she's not his wife, she hasn't been with him for over 20 years - it's deeply wrong! My heart keeps compiling a case against her, but in the end it doesn't change anything. Life is unfair and things are how they are. And then I start to get angry at him, because she never would have had this power in my life if he had not given it to her. And I swallow my anger because I don't want to wreck the fragile relationship we are trying to rebuild. But the anger is boiling and I don't know what to do with it.
ReplyDeleteI love him, and in many ways I understand what he has done. But I'm realizing that I am still very hurt and angry, and not ready to forgive. Life is dark, everything feels poisoned by his disloyalty and unfaithfulness.
Phoenix
DeleteI'm so sorry for the pain you are still having to endure! I can't understand to be in love with two people! I choose to call the one with ow was lust! I did have those six months when I felt her feelings were more important than mine! She refused to stop contact. This was when h saw the crazy really come out of her! Mine came out later! My h had to listen to several drunken rages where I spit every foul name I could think of at him! If contact had not stopped when the court order was filed, my bags would have been packed! I have not encountered the same emotional attachment that some here have between their h and his ow. My h said he had feelings for her in the beginning of their relationship but he never felt love. This hurt to the core regardless of how his feelings changed as he knew her longer ! I had such anger and it would just explode. Only after I knew the whole timeline was I able to talk to my h about the hurt anger and resentment feelings I was and still do have sometimes when I trigger! Venting on this blog has helped me contain some of my anger! Hugs for your pain and keep venting here!
Phoenix,
DeleteI know it is so hard but give yourself time. I was SO angry! Honestly, anger doesn't even describe it. I was filled with rage on a daily basis. If I remember correctly, you are just a few months out. I am just now, at 11 months out from D-Day 1 and 7 months out from D-Day 3, finding myself less angry and more sad. I think these are the phases we have to go through as we grieve this loss. If you can find a way to channel that anger, whether it's writing or doing something physical, that might help. My therapist suggested either throwing clay at a board or breaking plates because I had to do something to get that rage out. I was honestly fearful that I would drive to my husband's office and confront the OW which I knew would absolutely not end well. My solution was a heavy bag in the garage. I would come home, run on the treadmill and then spend about 30 minutes punching away on that bag. And when I knew there was no one around to hear, I said out loud everything I wanted to say directly to her while I was hitting. It was a major release for me. Writing has been too, but I had to do something physical.
As far as your H saying he's still "in love" with her, I know that hurts. In between D-Days 1 and 3, my H said a number of things to me that were hurtful and screwed up. I don't know that at that point he honestly knew fantasy from reality. He told me she was his best friend (lie), he "must have loved her on some level" (lie), she's "everything you're not" (lie). I realize now that he was still in shock from having been found out, still in the "fog" of the affair and still being manipulated in some ways. There are no excuses for any of it, but I do recognize now that initially, he saw his two lives crashing down and was desperately trying to do damage control. It took that final D-Day when the full truth came out for him to realize the magnitude of the situation. He made a decision to stay and attempt to repair our marriage. With therapy, lots of conversations and taking a really hard look at the affair, his perspective is very different.
I know right now everything seems dark. Give yourself time to go through all those emotions. Sadly, there is no shortcut. But as everyone here says, it does get better.
Hugs. I'll be thinking of you.
Phoenix,
DeleteI am so so sorry for what he's putting you through. I would have a very hard time trying to rebuild a relationship with someone who thought he was "in love" with another woman, no matter how delusional I thought he was. In what context did he tell you this? Is he in any sort of counselling to work through his own stuff? It sounds as if he still believes his nonsense. I think a lot of guys, without therapy to guide them, label what they did "love" because they can't make sense of it any other way. Rather than, "I love her so I'm going to have a relationship with her" it becomes "I had a relationship with her (and risked everything) therefore I must love her." Without being able to really parse out the narrative he was creating ("I'm not appreciated", "Life's short", "What's the point of everything?" etc.), he's left to simplistic answers.
In any case...we're here.
Just one question, if he really loved her why did he choose you? My H told me all kinds of stuff he believed to be true about the OW. Then about 22 months out his head came out of his ass and his story changed. Cheaters lie to themselves so much to retain what little bit of integrity they have left even though it is not true. That doesn't make it easy for you. I re-read what answers my husband gave me even a year out. I could see how he was telling me the truth but he wasn't explaining it as clear as he does now. My biggest question is why did you choose me? I eventually got an answer which was believable. His answers wouldn't cut with me. Steam said to me one time "why are you allowing him to blow off your questions?" After that I thought she is right. Since then I never accept those simple answers.
DeleteMy H is an expert at evading questions. I have to really pin him down sometimes.
DeleteLynn, I 'm terribly afraid that if I pin him down on that one, the answer will be: "I chose you because it's easier. We're used to each other and we have kids to raise together. And divorce would tear up our family and break the hearts of our kids and our parents. So..it's easier to stay. And BTW, I really do care about you, feel bad about hurting you, and like having sex with you."
I'm not sure why I'm dreading that answer. Haven't I stopped clinging to illusions of love yet? And haven't I admitted to myself that the children are a huge part of why I stay?
And yet...I'm reluctant to hear my H confirm that we are not really a love match anymore. We are a convenience - and hey, you still look pretty hot in those thigh-highs - match.
Phoenix, you can only take so much emotional trauma at one time. But you conveyed why you are stuck. Your moment of clarity will come while you are walking In the middle of the road. But know that people who walk in the middle of the road eventually get run over.
DeletePhoenix,
DeleteI think you're voicing what so many of us feel when we have years or decades of marriage behind us. We want to feel special -- chosen above all others. And well we should. But you're also right in that much of the reasons we stay married come down to so much more than "he's hot."
Of course, it's a huge reason why a lot of people cheat. We want that rush of emotion. Long-term relationships simply don't have the thrill of novelty. But ANY relationship settles into the day-to-day. So comparing a new relationship with a long-term one is apples and oranges. The stats for second marriages are more dismal than for first marriages. Especially second marriages that start as affairs. We don't choose affair partners the way we choose marriage partners. We're motivated by different things. That we devalue all those other qualities -- loyalty, kindness, being a good parent, supporting each other through tough times, hard-working, etc. -- simply shows how messed up our culture is. We value sexy. We value youth. We value thrills. None of which, incidentally, last.
Thanks, Theresa! I have mixed feelings; I want her to leave us alone, but I also sort of wish she would act out so that he would stop seeing her as his "damsel in distress". Probably I should just be grateful she is staying away.
ReplyDeleteI need to get to the point, like you, where I can talk to him about my pain and anger without overreacting. Last night I slammed my fist into our headboard because I was so furious, and I was afraid I'd hit HIM if I didn't.
Phoenix
DeleteI used cardboard boxes to release anger and the mind movies! I just sat and tore it up into small pieces for the recycling box! The sound of paper being torn and the force I used to pull it apart really helped me lose a lot of anger. I also spent a lot of time walking my dog! I still have anger issues so I get my watercolor paints out and paint a beautiful sky to ease my mind back to happy thoughts. I do anything I can to stay busy and occupy my mind. Time really is our friend! My h did say after one of my uglier outburst that he felt as if I were hitting him emotionally and would have preferred I just slapped his jaw! I have come to this place slowly where I use the stop sign at the end of the street to stop thoughts about her/him and this has allowed me to feel less anger. I pray your h learns how the words he chooses to describe his feelings for her cause hurt in your heart beyond description! More hugs sent your way!
Phoenix, I am so sorry. This brings back memories of what I was going through last fall. Thankfully @ 13 months my h sees things totally different. But the absolute bullshit I had to listen to!! He was convinced of her love for him... I remember screaming @ him, trying to convince him that the ONLY person who was acting loving to him was me! If she had loved him, she could've waited for him to break up with me & not let him risk everything for her. A true friend wouldn't have let him risk his kids when he could have had the relationship honestly had he wanted to really leave me. But she had nothing to lose. Total selfishness is not love-- it is lust, whether sex was the draw or the ego-stroking. When I KNEW this, I was so angry. But I couldn't convince him. Realized that wasn't my job. So I ran, shot guns & imagined it was her pathetic face, broke things, ripped up things, wrote scathing letters to him & the ow that I didn't send (although he would hear calmed down versions), and blasted gangster rap in my bedroom ("back off motherf#cker"is still my go-to). I actually think I was at my healthiest angry or hurt. But unfortunately half the time, I bought into the romance & wistful pining & thought maybe he should be with her, maybe it was my fault. This was not helpful to me @ all. I think time with nc & ic (which I insisted on after I found him mooning over her fb page one night 3 months post d-day..he then blocked her) made the difference for him. And maybe the fact that as I saw this for the bullshit it was& gave up trying to change his mind, I started drawing some clear boundaries about what I would listen to from him (no pining) & how long I could be with someone with residual feelings for someone else. It sucks & is hard. We were highschool sweethearts & married @ 18--over 20 years. Ive never been with anyone else. It still hurts so badly. Im thinking of all you ladies as we walk through this hell together.
DeleteCorrection: that's "get back motherf#cker" by ludicris! I KNOW you'll want to look it up! ;) lol!
DeleteQueen B,
DeleteThat's a really good point re. drawing boundaries around what you will/won't listen to. Which is why I asked why he was telling Phoenix this. We're not their therapist. And though we're clearly loyal and loving, we shouldn't have to listen to their adolescent drivel about "love" and "soul mates" and blah blah cliche blah.
Queen B, I love that!!!! I blared gangster rap at first too and I'm thinking maybe now that I can't shake this depression phase, I need to go back to it! Thanks for the reminder and the companionship with that, lol, I get the oddest looks blaring that out of the windows of my car :)
DeleteMy current favorite song is Daughtry's "What We Have Become", which, if you listen to the lyrics, sounds like he's talking about addiction. Very fitting in dealing with my husband's sex addiction. Great song to belt out while driving (people may look at me weird, but I honestly don't care).
DeleteI agree about finding an outlet for the anger. I smashed ice on my walkway. It needed to be done anyway. I have a baseball bat that I use to beat up old phone books and catalogues. Screaming and swearing while I do that helps as well. Journaling made a huge difference. I would write in it as if it was a letter to my husband. In it I could call him all the horrible names that would be much harder to take back if I said it to his face.
Theresa, Elle, Dandelion, Queen B - thank you. I feel so alone, and this is such a lifeline for me.
ReplyDeleteI'm a big fan of music therapy; I've used it a lot in the last 2 1/2 months! My go-to angry music is the Violent Femmes, but I will definitely have to check out that rap song, Queen B!
Really, Elle and Queen B, I brought it on myself. He had told me early on that he loved her, and the last text I ever saw him send her said, "I love you so much." It is written in words of fire in my brain. I've been reading "Private Lies" by frank Pittman, And the chapter on romance and romantic affairs made so much sense in the context of what we are going through. So I tried to talk to him about the difference between romance and love - to convince him, and myself, that the emotion he felt for her was not in the same category as what we have. He heard me out, and them came back later to reiterate that, no, he had fallen in love with her. He didn't intend to, it started as sympathy, protectiveness, friendship… but he fell in love, just as he vividly remembered falling in love with me the night we met. He said he couldn't ever forget either experience.
I then tried to make a case for the difference between "in love" - temporary infatuation - and real love, based on years of shared experiences, joys, problems, and really knowing someone. He conceded the difference, but somewhat reluctantly, and I could tell that there was more on his mind that he was not sharing.
At this point, I find myself doubting if I even really know what Love is. He says "I love you" to me all the time, but other comments he makes lead me to feel that he views our relationships primarily in the context of habit, comfort, and friendship. He's certainly sexually attracted to me. He worries about me and checks on me often. Is that love? Shouldn't I be content with that? I know the old relationship is dead, and wasn't really the special bond I thought it was anyway. I guess I am still mourning it, and I know I need to let it go. Lower my expectations. It seems like we have a good shot at building a new relationship. Do I want it? Is it worth it? Will I blow it with my constant depression, anger, and insecurity?
Sorry for the rambling. I have no counselor or therapist at the moment, so this is it. I'm analyzing my feelings here. H won't consider IC or MC.
Dandelion, I can't believe all that you went through. I am in awe of your strength and endurance. Thank you for reaching out to me, y'all. It means so much right now. I love the suggestions for dealing with anger. I am definitely going to implement them. You make me feel less alone.
How does he show you he loves you? It is easier for guys to show you and at that point it was all believed. He needs a therapist to explain this concept to him. My husband said a therapist was the only person he could talk to that was objective and helped him unravel his mind mess.
DeleteI know. He won't consider it. I wish he would.
DeleteYou have been on my mind too, Becky!
DeleteDid you see my response to you above?
Our stories do sound very similar. Our OW is 18 years younger than we are. She is in her second bad marriage. She is (supposedly) an abused wife. Back in the beginning, he would say how much he admired her strength, her sweetness, her mothering skills, etc., ad nauseum. Once, he even made the mistake of saying to me that he respected her the way he respected me. He doesn't say things like that anymore. He has learned what pain and rage it rouses in me. I have no objectivity. To me, she is a monster.
The pure volume of the rage frightened me at first. I am not used to feeling so violent toward another human being. My husband is convinced that I don't have it in me to hurt a fly, but it freaked him out a tad when I busted on our headboard. Anyway, hearing other stories of the anger, and how it is a natural part of the trauma and the healing, has been helpful to me. Unfortunately, I am not a gardener, but meditation has helped a little. Music helps me a lot too. I am thinking of seeing a therapist, if I can find one that is covered by my insurance. I am also going to talk to my doctor about antidepressants. I really didn't want to go that route, but my mood swings are scaring me, and I am a mom and a teacher. I've got to get a handle on this.
I really identify with what you say about not sharing all of your feelings with your husband. I've had a rough couple of days, and I've said practically nothing to him about it. I just can't decide if it's a good idea. Will it ruin the progress we are making? What if it exacerbates his own depression? And what can he really do about it anyway?
I'm thinking of hitting him with some big questions tonight, though. Questions about what love and marriage really mean to him at this point. Because I really don't know what they mean to me anymore. And I have to get my head around it, so that I can proceed with my life and decide what to teach my girls.
By the grace of God, I have a week's vacation coming up. It's a real blessing because I am having a very hard time focusing at work. Of course I will be busy with house cleaning, and preparing for Thanksgiving. But I'm also going to try to get some exercise, and maybe even go to a gym. And when I do, I will do it in your honor, yoga girl! 😀
We are NOT alone. Hugs, Becky. Thank you!
To my husband,
ReplyDeleteI lived through several years of the after-effect of my dads adultery with my moms best friend. As a child my life totally changed. No one talked about it. My dad stayed in the bars late until I after I had gone to bed. This was the same man who tucked me in every night.
My dad would regularly get drunk during the affair and pinned me up against the hall. After that I avoided him. This was the same man who took us camping and fishing.
My mom stayed in bed for hours smoking cigarettes, listening to the days of wine and roses while crying her eyes out. Neighbors shunned us and didn't want us to play with their children, the OW lived one street up. This was the same woman who was a Brownie leader and assistant soft ball couch even though she was disabled.
We moved to a 2 bedroom with my mom who was gone regularly for hours at a time. Can you imagine selling the house I grew up in, neighborhood friends, school? My entire life changes. I'm left to run wild. My dad doesn't want me anymore unless it is convenient for him and not on a regular basis. He dropped us off at Grandma's house.
The OW had 5 kids so my dads money went to her. Our financial resources took a dive. No extra money for clothes, beauty products or movies.
I was used as a babysitter frequently tied down. My mom randomly cried without any warning.
I don't think I'm ever going to get over your adultery. You can see why I easily trigger, cry, emotionally fragile, unsure, change is hard, and have self-esteem that takes a nose dive frequently. One day I'm living in the Little House on the Prairie or Walton's and the next day I am in Gone Girl or Home Alone.
You can see why this brought me to my knees. I'm still hurting from my dad and your adultery. I ask for your help and understanding that adultery in general is a fabric already weaved into my fabric. You just lighted my dress on fire. I can't seem to put the fire out it out. I hope you can love me even though I'm broken in many ways. I hope if I had shared this with you, you might have made a different choice. You might have thought this will send her over the edge so I can't do this to our marriage. But you didn't know because I didn't share this shame with you. My handsome big man on campus might think he made a mistake and he better get out while he can. This chick is seriously messed up. But the truth eventually comes out. I couldn't make love with another man to meet my needs. Not for you but myself.
Lynn, what a heartbreaking letter. I also had a parent who betrayed a parent. The circumstances were very different - and not as bad - but it was traumatizing. And my H knew - he knew how I struggled with it, how it scarred me. And he chose to do the same damn thing.
ReplyDeleteIt does stir up the old feelings. But you're not messed up - he is. I'm so sorry you have to deal with the echoes of the past as well as the pain of the present. Hugs to you, may you find some peace!
Hi Phoenix
ReplyDeleteYou have been with me all day, you are not alone there are so many of us that know your struggle. I really share so many of your feelings. My Hs affair was also very emotional and I had to hear a lot of crap about he cares for this girl, she is so amazing ect.... I say girl because she is about 20 years younger than us. Also because she has had a very painful life ther is the whole damsel in distress thing going on. I am sorry what she has suffered but - ugg. I also had a very angry stage (pretty scary) but for me it passed with meditation and gardening. I think the advice of a heavy bag is great if your athletic. I say feel that anger and use it demand respect and establish boundaries, but also know the hurt and fear that lies beneath.
Also understand hating - really hating -
The OW. That is exactly how I feel right now!!! It is pretty bad and feels like poison that I want to stop taking, but somehow i can't so far.... I really don't want to hate a person like this.... But right now it seems I can't help it.
I have also worried at times that my anger, despair, hurt, needs, will drive my H away because he is/was also hurting and at times couldn't take the full force of my feelings. As hard as it is sometimes I just wouldn't take my feelings thoughts, fights to him. I new it was cause more damage to our relationship. Although there were plenty of times when I should have not engaged with him and did and had terrible fights. I found a journal helped a lot to just get it out at times I did not think it safe to talk with my h.
I am also worried that you don't have a counselor. I would be lost without professional help. Elle has also posted before about Infedelity Counseling Network- they are peer counselor sand you might think of calling them.
Hang in there - you are never alone. Lots of love and support
Becky.
Becky, my response to you ended up above Lynn's post. Sorry! 😀
DeletePhoenix,
DeleteBecky makes a good point re. Infidelity Counselling Network. Free counselling from women who've been through this...and have been trained to help others. The number is in the right hand column on this site.
Becky,
ReplyDeleteI have continually struggled with that feeling of hating the OW. It's definitely more controlled than it was in the beginning, not so much anger, but sadness. Ironically, while I'm less angry now, I think the more I have learned about the affair, the more hatred I have. Initially, I really felt like my h had manipulated her and I hated her simply for being a whore. The more I learned, I realized that she had, in many ways, manipulated him too. This shouldn't have come as a surprise to me as they were both cheating on their spouses which requires lying and being selfish. Manipulation just falls right in with the rest. So then I found myself hating her for being a whore, for being a liar, and for the complete lack of regard she showed for me and my family. As much as it hurts, I have to acknowledge that my husband did the same things.
When I forgave my husband I felt an obligation to forgive her, as well. It tortured me when I just couldn't find it within myself to do so. Our therapist encouraged me to ease up on this drive to forgive and just try to get to a point where she simply doesn't matter to me. Someone here mentioned forgiving the OW for being so screwed up if you're unable to forgive their actions. I think that is in line with what Janis Abrahm Spring talks about in How Can I Forgive You?
I'll confess, I'm just not there myself. I have been through hell. I've raged, sobbed, and nearly fallen apart. I've watched my always strong husband break down and sob in my arms from the weight of what he has done, heard him say he hates himself and struggles to look at himself in the mirror. She, on the other hand, seems not to have suffered any consequences. She continued to work in the same office for about 4 months before finally quitting and, to the best of my knowledge, moving a few hours away. It's likely her husband was reassigned. If she is suffering, it's not visible to me. As hateful as it sounds, I wish it was. I would like to see her in the same pain that I am. In the meantime, I get some satisfaction from knowing that even if she isn't hurt by what she's done, she lives in constant fear of me letting out her dirty little secret. Maybe one day I won't be so spiteful, but I'm just not there. I try not to let it eat away at me and to just accept that I've been hurt, more accurately devastated, and need to work through the full range of emotions.
We're headed back to our therapist on Monday. I want to talk about this issue and hopefully head off a full meltdown on Thanksgiving since I know it will be a tough day for me.
I'm always grateful to have this place to share my feelings.
Hi Dandelion,
DeleteI totally agree with your therapist. I think it is really sound advice." Our therapist encouraged me to ease up on this drive to forgive and just try to get to a point where she simply doesn't matter to me." That is where I am. I don't have the energy to try to forgive her. I tried in the past and it only made me feel angry. I felt like you for a long time and I could have written the exact same thing. Really the only one who needs to forgive her is her. Now she means nothing to me and she was nothing more than a pile of coke, a bottle of tequila, a porn mag...pick your poison...to my husband. I also struggled with her not suffering any consequences. She had a fiance who she actually left because she thought my husband was going to leave me and move in with her. These poor women. They are living in their own hell. They have to live with themselves. She has moved back in with her fiance(who she told my husband she never loved and who is oblivious to the affair) and will live an empty unfulfilling marriage. I on the other hand will have a beautiful marriage full of passion and love(as it always has been). That is enough for me. You don't need to forgive her anything. You don't need to give her anything at all. Forgiveness is just another tool in our toolbox. Sometimes other tools are more suited, like apathy. I don't even bring forgiveness into my dialogue, like " I need to forgive my husband". I only need to love him.To "forgive" puts pressure to get somewhere, to a place of forgiveness. You can't force it or make it happen. It will happen organically. Just love yourself, be kind to yourself, love your husband(he seems to be truly sorry and want to work it out with you) It helped me to find gratitude for that, to find gratitude that we are still together, still in love, that he didn't leave me for her or get her pregnant. I know it sounds screwed up and it took me a long time to get there, I would scream in my head, "why should I be grateful that he didn't leave me for her, he shouldn't have been with her at all"...I realized that to heal I had to find my own path. I know it is hard, but it is really not helpful to give her anymore of your precious time or energy. Your husband isn't, why are you? I asked myself this question and had to look really deeply and I realized it was because I felt like I was less than, not enough and that was why I was so angry. The affair made me feel unworthy, that"s why I was so angry and felt so much hate for her. She made me question my self worth, she was better than me, prettier than me, etc etc, you know the dialogue...When I came to realize that it wasn't about me, or her, but about him and HIS lack of self worth I was able to make some space between me and her and now, finally let her go. Forgiveness has not been a part of it. And I don't feel bad about it either. You don't have to forgive her. Apathy works just as well. I hope that helps.
Dandelion, I am also incredibly spiteful. I hate her so much that it brings me to tears. Why should she get to destroy my life and walk off scot-free, with no reckoning, and with my husband's respect and approval? I want her to suffer as I am suffering. But this is not like me. I'm not usually like this at all. I've always believed in the power of love and forgiveness. I tell myself these feelings have got to fade.
ReplyDeleteDandilion and Phoenix
DeleteI guess I had to let the ow go as an obsession because I truly believe in Karma. I could not would not ever want to be anywhere near the Karma that I thought I wished on that wretched soul. When I watched what happened to her as a result of her poor choices, I was finally able to let go of what I thought she stole from me which only really amounted to a small amount of time out of the true timespan of my relationship with my h. We now realize that now forever more is longer that the small amount of time they decided to check out of the real world compared to what is left till when we become ashes, no longer matters to either one of us! We are so now refocused on us, what began our walk together and where we want that walk to end.... We just think that these two imperfect souls refuse to give up on each other! So we get up and face a new day...together, for better or worse! No matter if we have seem worse! Hugs for strength and hope!
You have such a great way of looking at it, Theresa! Every day is a new one and an opportunity to do better than I did yesterday. At least that's how I see it. I'm trying to focus more on the progress we've made than what's in our past.
DeleteHugs!
What I tell myself is that the OW stole enough from me. I refuse to let her steal any more of my life. Now, I'll be the first to admit that I'm not always successful, but I've found this helps. See your refusal to dwell on her in anger as a sign of strength, not weakness. You are taking back your power!
DeleteTheresa - I had to screenshot your response and save it. This is what I need to be working toward. Thank you!!!!
DeleteHi Ladies. Thanks so much for reaching out we all know how much it means to not feel alone.
DeleteI wish I could take all of my horrible feelings and dump it on her!!!!! I have also always be loved in forgiveness and having a generous spirt ... But this may be too much. Because man, I am really really hating her!!! Plus I still have a long way to go with forgiving my H much less her. I just don't want her to consume my thoughts so much and feel like a poison in my relationship.
Love and support to all those here.
Becky,
DeleteLet yourself hate her. Just don't let it consume you. It helped me to realize that, no matter how horrible I felt, I would rather be me than her. And, as Oprah used to say, we know the karma bus is coming. But unfortunately we don't always get to be around when it hits.
Me too, Phoenix! I have to believe it will come in time. Everything I read says you have to try not to focus on her, but it's hard. I wish I had copied something I read earlier today about this, which basically said fixating on her and what she did will not help you to heal. It was written in a blog by a betrayed wife who did a lot of the things I truly wanted to do but never did. She now says she has regrets for some of it and that it didn't help the healing process. I will try to find it and post it later.
ReplyDeleteI try to remember these things for the times when I feel the anger coming. And it means so much more to me when it comes from someone who has walked this road. I know my personality well enough to know that' "revenge" might bring me a brief amount of satisfaction but it would likely be short-lived. It's not in my nature to seek to hurt people.
Found it... It's on A Year After the Affair. She says..
Delete"But, I do want to reiterate why you should let her go...not just because she can't help you understand why your husband cheated. She never will. She has no clue.
Not just because you can never hurt her the way she hurt you. You know you can't. The pain betrayed spouses feel is distinct and specific to each of us.
Let her go because if you don't, you are injuring yourself forever. You're losing pieces of yourself that you won't notice until it's too late, until they are irretrievable."
Definitely gives me a lot to think about.
Exactly, Dandelion. Exactly. I have entertained revenge fantasies, but I know they would not really bring satisfaction. They would only bring more bitter regret. We are stronger, kinder people than the OW - that's why we're NOT the OW.
DeleteThese feelings will pas, they will pass, they will pass....!
Thank you for that post, I love it!
DeleteI still want the OW to suffer for all eternity alone and in pain. It's been 9 months since d-day. I realize now that that is a fairly short period of time. I've quite mentioning my triggers to H because he doesn't want to think about that time period. He was very depressed and she is not a nice person. They fought a lot and she belittled and threatened him. (of course this was the "relationship" after the lusty part wasn't shiny anymore.) I still can't get OW out of my mind, but what I read here has helped me so much. What I want to say is that I have never contacted OW, nor done anything to her at all; until recently, writing some ugly things about OW where I knew someone who knows her might see them. It's actually unlikely that will happen, but I felt petty and small for doing that. As much as I want to hurt her... I'm just not the kind of person who finds pleasure in acting that way. I love the Dhammapada and it says that what you do to someone else, you do to yourself and that your mischief will turn on you. I'm a good person and this situation isn't going to change that and I can hold my head up that my behavior is on par with the person I am.
DeleteI don't want to have Thanksgiving or Christmas this year. There is not one damn special thing about any holiday. He had her for 18 years ..... I hate them both. WTF - we are almost 5 months out. Please can we just fast forward to next year?
ReplyDeleteI was right where you are last year. I barely made it through last holiday season. Christmas eve I was on the couch sobbing my heart out. I barely got my son's presents wrapped before the day, didn't even do any baking or anything that I normally do. Usually I love Christmas so much, but last year it just felt like a torture. My husband kept asking me what I wanted. I told him I wanted to go to sleep for a year and wake up feeling better and past this.
DeleteLots of love to you. I know how hard this is. But you will survive. This is coming from someone who didn't think she would!
Anonymous 1998,
DeleteYou need support through this. What can you do to help you through? Anyone you can count on to give you the space to disappear and cry, if necessary? Can you build in an escape and go for a walk when you just need to get away. Please remember, this is just a day on the calendar that our culture has arbitrarily decided to celebrate (ask the American Indians how grateful they feel about this day!). If you feel the need to celebrate for your kids or family, then just do it for them. Trust that the day will come when you're through this pain. For now, acknowledge it...
Hearing such pain from so many, so much work to do to understand, accept, forgive, retrain the brain not to react to triggers, to rebuild self-esteem and to re-find loving feelings for our spouse. Is it just too much to ask of ourselves. Yes they were messed up or depressed or addicted or had family of origin issues but they did something terrible and it had terrible long-term consequences. It is so disillusioning and despite best efforts, despite not wanting to be cynical or feeling a victim, I am cynical, distrustful, broken, unable. Wider family pressures don't help with my depression but I don't know if I have it in me to come back from this and live happily with him by my side. I don't want to break up the family but I resent all the years that have been stolen, the effect on my sanity and creative endeavors I'd hoped to make a career. Real damage has been done, piece of mind has been stolen from me and my children. Has anyone just walked away from it all in the end not being able to come to terms with it even when the CS did his best?
ReplyDeleteFragments,
DeleteYes, there are absolutely women who've walked away. My friend is one of them. Her husband was full of remorse. She honestly believed he wouldn't cheat again. But she just didn't have it in her to keep on trying. Today she's remarried to someone else and he ended up marrying the OW who's now her son's stepmother.
She's happy. So am I. Different responses but we both wound up with what we wanted. This is your choice to make. As long as you make it with a clear head and heart, you'll be fine. You don't owe anybody a second chance, except yourself.
Anon 1998, my heart hurts for you. 5 months is a tiny amount of time to process a betrayal of that scale. I wish you COULD fast-forward. I am dreading the holidays too. I am thinking that I am going to try to do something new and special for myself. I don't know what it is yet. I hope you find something...anything ...that will give you some joy. Hugs, sister!!!
ReplyDeleteHi Phoenix
ReplyDeleteI am 5 and 1/2 months past d day. It has been super rough as you know, but about a month or so ago I could feel a shift towards improvement. I think part of that was the result of exhaustion. We knew we wanted to work on our relationship and wanted to stop hurting each other so much. Also for the fact is that in the 21st century there are so so so many ways to be dishonest and cover up stuff. So there came a point that I needed to stop making myself so crazy!! I needed to either take steps to believe in our relationship and efforts and love and commitment my H would profess. It has been hard and of course I still have some serious boundaries and trigger things ..... But I can't be with him ALL the time. So some trust and faith has to come back into the relationship- even though it is so scary and feels very risky. But my H has done a lot to make me willing to face that fear. We still have a very long way to go and so pretty hard issues to work on. I hope your H is helping you on this path because you deserve his help and support.
I have also felt crazy plenty of times. But we are not. We are hurt and feel like we can't even trust our own judgment.
I have always liked exercise and would work out about 4 days a week - but since d day I have not been to the gym even once!! I have been so mentally and physically beat. I'm hoping yoga will be a way to get back on track. We'll see how it goes.
Remember to be gentle with ourselves- sometimes we are so hard on ourselves. Take care. With love.
Becky.
Hello ladies, as I sit here weeping and feeling I want to scratch my skin off, I am about 2.5 weeks past D Day. My husband's friendship with a woman in his industry turned into a 5 month long (from what I know) emotional affair. I saw an email 5 days ago saying he loves her (from 2 weeks ago), and I cannot explain how it has leveled me. We have not had a good marriage for a few years, financial worries,?kids, etc., but instead of telling me he was ready to leave, he started with her. Then he got caught via cell phone records . The worst of this is he told me tonight he doesn't think he wants to work on the marriage because he can't believe he could cause me such pain, and he will never be able to love me the way I need because he's hurt me so much. I do want to try, though, I love him and our family, but I can't make him. He told me that "all of a sudden now I want him because I am losing him". So cold! How can he be heartless like that? He says he loves me, but he can't just by saying those words.
ReplyDeleteSorry if I am rambling, I just feel like I am dying.
Broken,
DeleteI'm so sorry for what you are going through. 2.5 weeks is very early and everything you are feeling is normal given what has happened. I know there are others here who can offer more solid advice than I can, but the best advice I can offer is to take care of yourself and know that your feelings are normal. I would also say if you can, find a therapist who you can talk to. I avoided telling anyone what was happening in the beginning but finally going to a therapist and being able to talk about my feelings was so helpful for me.
While I'm sorry that you had reason to find this blog, I'm glad that you found it so soon after finding out about your husband's EA. The ladies on this blog have been amazing and a major part of my healing.
Broken,
DeleteWhat you're feeling and how he's responding is pretty much standard for couples in this situation. He can't imagine you'll ever forgive him (more to the point, that he'll be able to forgive himself) so it's easier to walk away than to do the hard work of repairing the damage he's done. Sadly, it's that kind of thinking that leads to the affair in the first place. Easier to look somewhere else to have needs met than to work like hell to transform a relationship.
Both of you are still reeling from this. If you even think you want to rebuild your marriage -- and he even thinks he wants the same -- then you both need to ensure that his relationship with the OW is over and there's no contact. None.
And then...triage. I would urge each of you to find a counsellor to help you through. Someone who can help him sift through the thinking that got him into this mess and someone to support you through the pain of healing of betrayal. It's possible to heal without therapy...but it sure makes it harder.
And please know, the agony you're in right now won't last. Be gentle with yourself. Eat what you can. Sleep as much as possible. Don't force yourself to make any big decisions right now. Let the dust settle. The time will come to rebuild or dismantle...but right now, trust that you'll get through this.
Oh, Broken...I wish I could climb through cyberspace and hug you and let you feel safe in your pain. Your story is almost CARBON COPY of my second H's affair...the friendship with OW in his industry, going on for 6 months before I found out, finding out via cell messages, not having that great of a marriage prior to A because of pressures and kids. So I know the devastation you are feeling, and my heart breaks! He even blamed it on me the way yours seems to be. I think they have a defense mechanism sometimes that says, "Gee, I royally screwed up, but I need to put some blame on her so that I don't feel so bad about myself" and probably so they can justify and possibly continue their actions. So selfish and cruel! You are at such a fragile place being so fresh from D-Day, but it will get somewhat better. I know in my case I gave it another year, in which he refused to stop being "friends" with her. Hopefully your H will come to his senses and stop the mind games and stop seeing her. A lot of the glamour wears off when they are found out. As for you Dear, only you can decide what is the path you want to take, whether with or without him. Either way is not easy or without pain, but ultimately YOUR choice. I would suggest you do something awesome for yourself... Go out with friends, take a night or 2 and go to a hotel just by yourself, or just go out and spend a shitload of money on YOU!! You deserve it, and you have every right to! I'm supporting you and you are NOT alone!! Love and BIG hugs!!
ReplyDeleteYes, I think that's exactly what happens. It's a bizarre kind of thinking that says, "I did this awful thing to my wife and if I can't blame her in any way, it means that I'm just a colossal asshole. And since I don't want to be a colossal asshole, I'll tell myself that it's because my needs weren't being met, our marriage was bad, etc." Doesn't mean that stuff isn't true. It just means there were many other options to deal with a bad marriage, etc. than betraying the person he promised to never do that to.
DeleteWell, I just can't stop thinking about the OW. I want to know what kind of person she is. Really, I want to know. I know asking my H is CRAZY - and he won't be able to answer. Because, honestly...how could he ever come out on the good end of that conversation. It is killing me.
ReplyDeleteI am falling a little backwards into the "You always had her" for 18 years - and I had no one. I am thinking back to all those holidays that didn't always go so well and even the ones that did. As we were laying in bed last night we talked about the past a little bit. I told him I didn't think it was a good idea to discuss all this. But he wanted to - so I explained how sad and angry I was for how he treated me over the past 18 years. I received little to no support when it came to discipling our kids; that he would sit in the same room and listen to some of the crap that came out of our son's mouth and NEVER stepped in - NEVER. Allowing me to believe I was just a little crazy because I would swear he told me one thing (A LIE) but then came out with a different story. That he knew I was lonely and depressed. But would not, could not comfort me. That how he tried to convince me he and the OW were really just friends - that's it. How he and the OW just spent one WHOLE night together (in 18 years?????). He still tries his best to downplay the whole 18 year relationship as "Not what you really think", and "The sex wasn't spectacular" or others like that. So I asked him "Why, if you didn't want to see OW any longer, did you stay", "if it was that stressful, hard ... you didn't love her. Why didn't you just end it. H says he hates himself, and is disgusted - was so disgusted and depressed at what he was doing - he couldn't figure out how to make it end. He told me last night he was afraid of what she might do. I asked H did he mean personally or professionally? He said he didn't know - maybe both. I asked H if OW threatened him - he said NO. But that you just never know what people will do, So of course, I wonder what the hell does she have on my H? What the hell is it?? 18 years - THIS makes me STUCK.
H told me he is so grateful that I am here and willing to try to work on our marriage. That be still believes I may not come home tomorrow - that he loves me and wants to be a better man. I asked him "What if you can't"..... he said he knows he can. I just want to cry. My truth is I am still scared - so afraid. H says he knows I am afraid. And is trying to do whatever he can to make me feel safe. Sometimes it's not all up to him - it's partly me I guess.
Thanks for letting me vomit my feelings before I go to work..... it really helps me.
Anonymous 1998,
DeleteShe's the kind of woman who's willing to have an affair with a married man. That's all you need to know. And if your husband remained the kind of guy willing to do the same without making amends, I'd say toss him out. But you have a history with him. He's determined to deserve this second chance. And he's willing to really listen to you outline all the ways in which he's betrayed you over the years. Nobody would blame you for walking out. But if you want to give him that second chance, I think you're both doing exactly what you should be doing. Being brutally honest. Allowing yourselves to be vulnerable with each other. This is terrifying, 1998. There are no guarantees that he can be that better man. There's no way to make life less terrifying. We have to shore up our strength and trust that we can handle whatever comes our way. Because we can. You can. You're doing great.
Let the OW go. She's not worth your energy. Your husband stayed with her because he was chicken shit, which incidentally is the same reason he cheated on you. Easier to escape than face problems or conflict. He needs to learn new skills. He will continue to better understand why he did what he did and it will challenge his self-respect (if he has any). He will be forced to face some pretty ugly truths about himself. But ultimately, he will learn how to be that better man. In the meantime, you need your own pain validated. All those lonely years. All those small betrayals you knew about and the huge one you didn't.
At a certain point, though, you'll have to make a decision. Live in the past? Or accept that past and decide to live in the now.
Dear 1998,
DeleteI so agree with Elle. I told myself, I will give it 6 months and see where we are in process. I wanted the divorce and he didn't. I will assess my circumstances after 6 months. Then I gave it another 6 months becaus I still wasn sure. Because what your husband did to is so horrendous you might need a year for good measure. My husband was also afraid the OW would tell me so he was working on year 3 until I caught him. I haven't heard what your husband was missing, his justifications and excuses. None if it is justified but it may give you more insight and understanding as far as where his head is beside up his butt. So far his responses sound like side-stepping your questions. It will be difficult to understand with a response - "sex wasn't spectacular"? What does that mean 18 years were not spectacular. Don't let him blow you off. I would need an emotion timeline to begin with. It would take some type of man to admit this length of an affair then try to stick with you knowing what he choose for 18 years was being a number one sleaze ball. He still sounds like he needs help but is hanging in there. It would have been easier for him to leave that kind of mess behind him and you in the rear view mirror. Did he quit seeing her cold turkey or did it dwindle down? If he quit cold turkey then it wasn't that hard to leave the OW. I'm still feeling for your pain and injustice that was done to you. Just make sure of what you want. He lost all those years with you and the family. You didn't you were present and participated. He cannot get back any of that time it is gone. I don't buy he was afraid, was that year 5, 10,15 or 18? He is scared out of his mind he is going to come home and you are not there. Ask your self what is he doing to demonstrate he is trying to change. Men have a difficult time verbalizing especially when they think they don't deserve a second chance. How can he say anything when he doesn't deserve to voice his thoughts? Not that this right but I understand your need to meet the OW because your husband isn't give you the information you need. You are strong, you just can't see how strong you are.
Lynn -
DeleteI don't know ... today is Tuesday. I am home alone. My H and son are gone to his parents for Thanksgiving and myself and our daughter will join them tomorrow late evening. So here I am... thinking.
I have no clue what the hell he was thinking - really. He is going to counseling and we both continue weekly counseling. He has a lot of personal shit to work out that has nothing to do with me - but as I now know, affects me directly...and our fucking marriage.
He is completely an avoidant person - avoids conflict, hard decisions, emotions, you name it he avoids it. But in business - he is a badass. He can do it all. I used to tell H to quit talking to me like I was one of his employees.
He is trying the only way he knows how at this point - but I don't know if it will be enough for me.
He still lets little bits of info out .... and I take it in. Do I handle H with kid gloves cuz I am afraid? I don't know. But really, at this point, I feel that I am not a hostage to the fear of being alone. I don't want to be alone ....seriously. I love my H and want no one but him. But if he cannot help himself - then I will have to make a decision.
I know I should not give the OW any of my thoughts or time. But I have so much ANGER and HATE for that C*nt - i mean that. How is it that my life, my world is turned upside down and she gets to keep on living her fucked up life with her H and no kids. WHO is that kind of person?? I guess not much better than my H - fml.
I hate Thanksgiving, I don't want to be around anyone - but I will smear a smile on my face and try and be happy around my kids and my H's parents. Unfortunately our kids know - and we will all be together.... I don't want to bum my kids out - but I can only fake it for so long.
A1998,
DeleteI hope you'll build in some time so that you can be alone. Go for a walk by yourself after dinner or something and just let the smile fall from your face. Be tuned into your emotions so that they don't get crammed down.
As for your husband, I think Lynn made really important points. Some guys, however, can't give you answers yet because they don't have them. They're as baffled by what they've done as you are. It made sense at the time but in the cold light of day?? Insanity. Since you aren't ready to make a choice one way or the other, I would recommend giving him time to work through a lot of this in therapy. You'll either begin to see changes or you won't. I suspect you will -- small insights he'll gain. In the meantime, you focus on you and your healing. Work through your anger re. the OW. Does her husband know? Let it exhaust itself. She's ultimately not worth giving her real estate in your brain. She's lost too but that's her problem, not yours.
Hi, Broken. I know, it hurts like hell.
ReplyDeleteMy husband had a 4 month EA. We're not quite 3 months past Dday 2 (the big one), and not quite 2 months past Dday 4. Yep, 4. He lied to me for over a month after he told me he would stop. He was a mess of emotions, and could not sort it out. I don't know your husband. but if he's anything like mine, he's irrational right now, swamped with grief, guilt, and self-loathing. And some of it turns to anger, and some of it gets turned on you. I know it's really hard to hold onto right now, but try to remember that when he says things that tear you up. Neither one of you is in the shape to make permanent decisions right now, so try to postpone it if you can. Just try to make it from day to day.
At 2 1/2 weeks, I was in shock. It was a like a nightmare I couldn't wake up from, and I couldn't believe it had really happened. Accepting that it was real, that it HAD happened, and that my life would never be the same was the first step. I cried every day. I journalled every day. I found somebody neutral to talk to. My H and I talked as much as we could stand. He breathed hot and cold, held me and apologized, then became distant and shut himself down. After Dday 4 I saw a lawyer, but I never actually filled out the paperwork he gave me. My H started to come out of his fog and finally went NC with the OW. We don't know what our future's going to be like now, but we're working on it. I had a couple of good days this week, and some days when I struggled with depression and pure rage. But I'm doing a lot better than I was a month ago. And for now, we are still here.
More experienced ladies will give you good advice, but I'm just a few steps ahead of you on this hellish path, and I can tell you that it does get better, by degrees. Prepare yourself for grief, anger, and paranoia, and ride them out. Let yourself feel them, as Elle says. And keep coming to this site. The BWC ladies are awesome. Even as they struggle themselves, they will reach out to you with love and support, and good advice. And, unlike anyone else, we can say to you with perfect truth: we know. We've been there. We have felt/are feeling exactly what you are feeling. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. You are heard. We are here for you. You will get through this.
(((Hugs)))!!!! from Phoenix! Keep writing to us!
Phoenix,
DeleteThat is such a beautiful response to Broken and to anyone who finds herself on this road. It does get better, even in small amounts. And then you'll plunge back into despair and think you'll never feel better. But you will. It's a roller coaster. Up, down and round and round. But yes, you will get through this. And it's possible to not only get through this but to emerge with a stronger sense of who you are and a deep belief in your own strength and wisdom.
At 2.5 weeks i was a zombie barely get thru the bare minimum of the days to do work ... kids ... the world id walk numb thru the day and take hour long showers at night after sobbing on the bathroom floor. If your even taking a shower and getting out of bed at 2.5 weeks consider that enough for the day. I was numb sick and shocked for months ... im almost 7 mo out .... and while it still feels like just yesterday the world i knew ended ... i no longer wake in the morning crying my eyes out. I feel im no longer obcessing but definitely still thinking about it and processing ... managing ... trying to figure it out. Make a decision or sit idle till you figure it out. Myself i feel far to vested to shoot from the hip on this and in my heart i knew leaving without figuring it out wouldnt hurt any less then staying ....i still have my moments and a ways to go ... it my choice everyday to work on it so know this ... when everything is out of control and no gaurantees in life .... you can always control yourself .... its your choice everyday... i havent chimed in for some time besides betrayl i dealing with and healing from surgery .... big life lessons of control or more importantly things arent always able to be controlled. ... im still standinf .... to any new comers i chant .... im wounded but not broken. Xo
ReplyDeleteStill standing indeed! Thanks Wounded.
DeleteFor Broken,
ReplyDeleteThe best advice I got early on was Take Care of Yourself. Really though, look out for yourself without apology (I can't believe he was sleeping with someone else and I was still feeling bad for doing the math on an apartment of my own!!) and be kind to yourself about the confusion and the pain and insanity as it comes up because they're normal parts of this. Figure out what you want to do... but don't beat yourself up for not already having the answer.
I remember searching and searching for things that gave me hope that the pain would end even if I didn't leave him and that it might be possible to find a way to not just keep this man but be genuinely happy together. I'm not there yet but I'm far enough that I don't have to take these possibilities entirely on faith any longer. The pain fades and, as you sort things out with each other, you might grow closer in ways you wouldn't expect.
One word of advice I wish I would have gotten was already mentioned... don't let yourself be rushed into making choices. Take your damn time. It is your right.
Oh, and also... as Blinders said.. spend a shitload of money on yourself if you can-- Especially if you've been playing "the responsible one" - time to take really good care of you =) In my case, it had an unexpected positive effect on him.
Broken
ReplyDeleteI am so very sorry for all the hurt you are experiencing right now - I know the pain can be so overwhelming especially in the early days and weeks. I was a zombie for quite some time - numb to everything and not able to eat or sleep.
As other have said now is a time to be kind to yourself. Do what you need and take care of yourself. Breath in and out. I think sleep is a big thing, I was not sleeping well and often not at all. Sleep depravation can make everything that much harder; if you are having a hard time sleeping you may want to try an over the counter sleep aid or see your doctor. I used some over the counter herbs and Tylenol PM, which really made a difference when I knew how strung out I was from lack of sleep.
Also, please please know this is not your fault in any way - ever!!!! No marriage is perfect and lots of us have been struggling in our marriage prior to finding out about affairs. That does not make the affair our fault in anyway!!! We are partners in our marriages both in good times and the hard times, but we are never responsible for H's betrayal. That was his bad choice and his alone. I know the shame and guilt can be serious feelings, but you are not alone. This has happened to many of us and it is not our fault.
Also, I would suggest not making too many big decisions early on. I know that for me my thoughts and feelings were all over the place and could change very quickly. That is normal and you don't need to have any answers right now or be forced into decisions. Just breath, one day at a time, and slowly the best path for you and your family will be found.
Also, this site can be a real life saver!! Elle has a lot of wisdom and compassion to share and so do all of the women here. This is a safe place to share and find support and be inspired.
love and hugs to all
Becky
Yes, sleep is important and it's often the first thing to go. I relied on Gravol and melatonin to help me get at least some sleep.
DeleteToday was a hard day. Triggers and fear both this morning and evening. There has been drama of late with the OW. Someone left a note on her car saying that my H loves me and only used her for sex. She accused me of leaving the note and called me pathetic.
ReplyDeleteI did not leave that note!!!! I have had lots of crazy schemes to act out towards her, but they are only that .... Crazy schemes in my head. I know nothing good would come of it and I am not that kind of person. If I did ever contact her it would be planned and via email not an anonymous note on her car.
Of course I think she did it herself or is making up as a way to get attention from my H. Which she succeeded- he's says she would never do that blah blah and that is so hurtful blah blah crap! Ahhhhhhh. I know he still feels more for her than he tells me.... I guess he is trying to avoid hurting me. But after 15 years I know him pretty well the amazing and the complicated baggage!
I hate all of this so much and on days like this I am not sure I can make it..... What is it anyway. A better marriage. True partnership knowing myself, facing fear, learning compassion and connect.... I'm not sure if I can these things???? I want to hide in a cave with my dog.
Love and support to all here.
Becky.
Becky,
DeleteA cave with your dog sounds like the perfect place for you right now. I'm speaking metaphorically but seriously -- disengage from him and this ridiculous OW.
You will make it. But sometimes we need to just curl up with our dog, who would NEVER EVER cheat on us, and let the world just drift past us until we're ready to face it again.
In the meantime, your husband can work his ass off trying to prove to you that he deserves a second chance with you. If he can't be bothered doing that -- if he's too busy defending the OW's good name (ha!) -- then make sure you get custody of the dog.
I know what you mean, Becky. Some days it all seems worth working for, and other days you just feel like giving up.
ReplyDeleteIt's weird, something like that happened with us last week. The OW's friend, who still works with my H, told him about a spiteful anonymous phone call OW got. NOT me...if I ever decide to confront her, I'll have a lot more to say than that. We finally decided someone was making it up - he wants to blame the friend, of course. What. Ever. It raised questions in my mind about how much he is talking to the friend about OW...it even raised the spectre of fear that he heard it from The Skank herself, making me question whether there was really NC. But I had to let it go...
This morning I completely lost my temper with him for no good reason. My emotions are a wreck.
I know how much it rankles to hear him defend the OW, and to wonder what he really feels for her. It sucks. We didn't sign up for this. I resent so much that this despicable third person has been invited into our marriage - by him. Sometimes I envy the women whose husbands have learned to despise the OW. I know they have their own challenges - but at least they and their husbands can bond and work together AGAINST this person, be a team that way. In cases like ours, our husbands still have feelings for the enemy, and it's a barrier, isn't it?
I'm sorry, I wish I could offer more encouragement, but all I've got right now is empathy. Hang in there, friend. By the very nature of time, these skanks are going to get smaller and smaller in the rear-view mirrors of our lives. And we will get through days like this...(((Hugs))) to you! I will be thinking about you today!
Thanks Phoenix -
DeleteI think you're right both your phone call and my note situation are probably made up. They just don't make sense and we know we didn't do it.
You're also right that we will get through these days... And the terrible OW will become smaller and less meaningful. my H actually tells me that, as we become stronger together she becomes smaller and less and less to him. Honestly, I think he mostly feels sorry for her abuse and bad situation. But has not totally disengage from all the emotional stuff generated by the affair.
I wish she would just go away far far away!!! Anyway. Thanks for the support. Hugs.
Love and support
Becky.
From: Juniper (on Feeling Stuck: Part 9, where we've run out of space)
ReplyDeleteHi ladies,
I am 8 months in and the road has been hell. My husband and I are still together and still madly in love. He had an affair with a woman from work for 10 months. He came clean in March, a month after he finally ended it with her. 2 months later we got pregnant and unfortunately lost our son at 17 weeks along. I birthed him and held his little body for 5 hours before I finally gave him over to the nurse. We lost our baby to my grief. My husband blamed himself, I blamed myself. I was suicidal, fighting for my life...and here I am still breathing still hoping still loving. I am too tired to share my full story, and really it doesn't matter the details. Please know that our husband's affairs had nothing to do with us. Could we have been better wives, mother's, human beings? Of course, we all have room to be better but that is no excuse for what they chose to do. They chose to do it to escape, to fill the gaping hole within themselves, because they were addicts, because they had no gratitude for the lives they had. Because they forgot why they married us in the first place. They married us because they loved us. And we loved them. So it is not useful to beat yourselves us. There is nothing you could have done. The only reason it was "her" is because she was available. Nothing more. There is nothing special about her. Period. That said please stop focusing on your husband, the other woman, what you did wrong, etc and focus on yourself. You didn't deserve this and you don't deserve to suffer. You deserve your love, your kindness, your compassion. Yes we have been reduced to rubble and we need to rebuild. But it is not our marriages we need to rebuild, it is ourselves. Give love to yourself, have reverence for yourself, find little things to be grateful for, connect with your bodies, pamper yourself. You deserve it after the hell you have been put through. Find little moments that give you joy and one day you will wake up and feel happy. Surrender, let it be, smile at yourself in the mirror, hug yourself often. Heal yourself and your marriage will follow. Or not. But at least you will be whole, not broken. We are stronger than we think. Blessings, compassion and love to all. My heart is with you xxx
would just like to add...details...I was stuck on the details...maybe I will be again...today is a good day and I am putting the questions out of my mind. My husband also gets upset when I ask him more details, he tells me he has already told the me truth. Something that he said keeps sticking in my mind. He said "what does it matter, it was all ugly it was all disgusting and it never should have happened, please forgive me, please come back to me". I am not trying to excuse our husbands, but just know that if they are truly remorseful, and you will know if they are, they are feeling so much shame and guilt. They are also in a lot of pain. They feel pain every time they look in our eyes and know that they are the cause of ours.I know it is difficult and I am not saying excuse them for what they did, but understanding and compassion go a long way(to heal ourselves). If we truly want to heal, we have to try to have compassion for them as well. Not necessarily for why they had the affair, but for the pain, guilt and overwhelming shame they are feeling now, right along side of yours. For those who have husbands who are not remorseful or don't feel bad, even more reason to feel compassion for them. Poor sorry souls. And know that is no reflection of your worth. It is representative of theirs. We are ALL worthy of love and belonging Peace Love & Respect ladies xxx
Juniper,
DeleteI am so sorry for the loss of your beautiful baby. I would caution you, however, against making any sort of assumptions re. the reason you lost your baby. Grief is powerful, of course, but remember that babies have been born in refugee camps, concentration camps and in other horrific circumstances. I think you and your husband have been through enough pain without blaming yourselves further for this loss.
And gratitude to you for having this amazing blog. For so long I haven't felt a part of the human race(after the affair and then amplified by the loss of our son). Like I was an outsider looking in. Everything felt surreal. The feeling of connecting with another woman personally who understands the suffering I am feeling is affecting me in a really profound way. Thank you
DeleteJuniper.
DeleteWow thank you for the heartfelt beautiful post!! It really touched me. My heart goes out to you and your H for the loss of your son. I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for being brave and vulnerable here. I feel like you taught me so much in one post. With love and well being,
Becky.
Thank you. So sorry for your loss.
DeleteHi Elle,
ReplyDeleteThank you, we both struggle with this, but we try to see the lessons we have both learned through the loss of our son. His death could have been the last straw but it just brought us closer together, so his precious little life was not for nothing. Of course, we don't know why he died and we will never know. He was a perfect baby with no genetic problems that they could find. His little heart just stopped. That said, we can't underestimate the damaging effects of stress and negativity on our health and I look at the loss of our son as a hard lesson learned, as does my husband. The loss has made me realize that I am only harming myself by continuing on with my suffering. That and I refuse to give her the gift of my suffering any longer.
Juniper,
DeleteI'm glad you found us. It sounds as if you're ready to put an incredibly painful year behind you. You'll find much support and wisdom and deep compassion from the women on this site. I'm consistently humbled by the kindness I see so many extend to others here and the grace I witness in the women whose hearts have been broken but who are still able to love.
Juniper,
ReplyDeleteI'm terribly sorry for your loss.
Your post was honest and beautiful. It touched on so many things that I struggle with and I know many others here do too.
Thank you Dandelion. The last 8 months have been so surreal. I felt like I was out of my body. I lost myself and felt like I was broken in a million pieces, like my soul was wandering...lost and beyond retrieval. I realized I had two choices, to live in fear, doubt and hate or to choose love. I choose love and am trying to live moment by moment choosing love. So when I want to scream at my husband in anger for what he did I think to myself, what will be the consequences? Will anything good come out of this? It is just more harmful, to me and to him. We have suffered enough. So I choose love. I am learning to be conscious. Hate in my heart is not going to solve anything. Love squashes all the feelings of revenge, of anger, of hate. I try to choose love every moment because I know if I don't we will just keep living in hell. My husband is also broken from what he did. He has quit his job and we have moved across the country. He is truly remorseful, understands why he did what he did, doesn't blame me. We both hit rock bottom. There came a point where he had done everything he could possibly do and I realized that now it was up to me. Up to me to stop punishing him and ultimately myself. It was up to me to love myself and allow him to love me too. It is a lot to ask someone to keep loving you when you keep hating them. It is a lot to ask someone to love you when you are hating yourself. We can hate what they did but if we truly want to spend the rest of our lives with them, we have to love them and make our way back to them(after we make our way back to ourselves). Even as I say it I feel some resistance, the temptation of my grievances...but that's just the way it has to be. For me at least. Otherwise whats the point? I feel that if I truly love him like I say and believe I do then I should act like it. I take no responsibility for his affair but I have to take responsibility for how I am reacting to it. I can still feel angry, still feel hurt, still feel all those things but respond from a place of love. Otherwise I will truly die, spiritually, emotionally, and ultimately physically. It has felt like a painful slow death up until this point. I refuse to continue on that path. Life is too beautiful and the love we share to precious to throw away over anything. Going forward I am sure I will falter but at least I have something to come back to over and over again, and that is me, the love I have found for myself. I closed myself off from love out of fear, but I feel it flowing again. It is what makes us who we are. Love. We can't deny ourselves the love we deserve. That's when things like affairs happen. How can we truly love another if we don't love ourselves first? When we don't love ourselves we look elsewhere and do all kinds of other crazy shit. Really we just need to look within. All the answers are there. I am learning some much needed lessons through this and I know I will never be the same again...and I am glad for it because I am stronger, wiser and fearless. f I make it though this I can make it through anything! I learned my worth, I OWN my worth. That's what I am getting from all of this mess. I keep asking myself, what are the lessons i need to learn here. Who am I in all of this? I am a strong proud brave and courageous and forgiving woman who is full of love and worthy of love, that's who I am. So thank you affair for giving me that gift! I am going to go back and read your story, Dandelion because you took the time to read mine.
DeleteJuniper, your story is heart breaking and your outlook is amazing. I was crying reading your post to Dandelion because you are so positive and hopeful. Thank you for sharing your story and your response to what happened. I love that you say you choose love. Hugs and prayers for continued healing.
DeleteThank you, Juniper. I have received so many unexpected messages on this path to healing. Some of them come in the form of random things friends have posted on Facebook, others have been posts or comments on this blog, or stumbling across another blog. But they have all been messages that I needed to hear at that exact time. I believe that it happened that way for a reason.
DeleteYour last post definitely hit me that way. It came the day after my husband and I went to our therapist and the things you said were pretty close to what we discussed. I struggle sometimes to acknowledge how far my husband and I have come and fall back instead on what has happened. I know I may never forget it but I do have the choice to not live back there. I also struggle with acknowledging my husband's pain. He's remorseful and he's doing the right things, but I also have to understand that he needs to heal too. Up until now, I've been too wrapped up in my own pain.
Sometimes it's hard to acknowledge the good that has come in the wake of the affair, but if I'm honest I need to do just that. My husband and I were both broken down, but we are rebuilding, one day at a time.
Thanks again for your words. Your strength is so evident in what you've written.
Juniper,
DeleteThat's such an incredible post and you've so succinctly said what many of us want. With your permission, can I post your comment as a blog entry? I think more people will find it that way. Let me know...
Hi Elle,
DeleteI would really love that.
Juniper
I don't even know how to explain how stuck I am, which for a person who is never at a loss for words, is frustrating. I feel like I'm stuck in this constant cycle of fear. The OW's baby is due in February and I feel like until we know whether the baby is my husband's, I am just stuck. How do I know what our life is going to look like in 3 months, much less down the road? It's affecting our recovery/reconciliation because I'm so scared of the situation that it makes it hard to focus on anything else. I want so badly for us to feel more connected, when I first found out she was pregnant, it felt like it brought my husband and I closer, I guess because of the oneness of figuring out how this would affect our lives, business, etc. She originally told me she would work through me for everything, but that didn't pan out the few times we had contact with her. We are NC until after the baby is born and we need to arrange the DNA test. I'm worried my husband's "feelings" for her will come back when he needs to interact with her and I worry that he'll resent me, which is just stupid and I know it. He really is trying hard to do the right things to help my recovery, although he loses his temper sometimes when I get upset continuously, but I think its mostly because he's disgusted with himself and then he is always apologetic afterward (this is not the norm, most of the time he's very supportive and can hold me in my pain), but I tend to focus on all of the bad stuff and its magnified for me. He reassures me when I communicate my worries that he does not want to be with her and even if we weren't together, he would not be with her, although he said he'd obviously be in more contact with her due to the baby. He said he could never resent me because he's the one that got us into this mess, but I just don't know. I feel like having a baby with someone is such an intimate experience and it pisses me off that he didn't try to prevent it and assumed she was on birth control. I'm mad because my four year old son will be affected in ways I don't even know how to comprehend yet and I'm just pissed that this is our life. I'm trying so hard to forgive the OW because of the situation but its so hard, harder yet because I'm sure that she tried to get pregnant believing that would cause him to leave me. I feel guilty because I just want this all to go away, which makes me feel bad because that baby is a human life and once we're past the figuring out how it will work, I know she'll be a happy part of our family, I'm convinced that we can look past the situation to love the child who had no choice in her birth circumstances. I'm making myself crazy too, with wondering if he's still talking to her. Her number is blocked and I really don't believe he is, but I'm crazy making with his cell phone, triggered nonstop (that was his primary means of communication with her). UGH.
ReplyDeleteOut of the Ashes,
DeleteI wonder if a big part of your feeling stuck is that you're trying to manage things you simply can't know. And certainly can't manage. It will take Herculean effort but try to stay in the moment. Right now...you and your husband are managing pretty well under the circumstances. Right now, you have a healthy wonderful little boy.
Don't push things. Whether or not you're able to forgive the OW isn't necessarily a decision for now. Let it happen organically.
Let yourself resent this baby for now. Resenting the intrusion into your already difficult life right now doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you human. I suspect your compassion and your kindness will ultimately serve you...but don't force it. You deserve to just be pissed off right now at everything you're being asked to deal with.
So...what's your next right step. I would think it's to focus on being gentle with yourself, giving your son some stability in the midst of this emotional turmoil, and trusting in yourself. That's all you need to know right now. Next right step.
Elle, thank you. You're right and I just posted that on my bulletin board, the next right step. In my pre-affair life, I was the control freak, organizer, planner, etc. and I struggle with the loss of control over what feels like ANY aspect of my life. I know that's not entirely true, but some days it feels like it. I overthink everything and I need to remember to just focus on the now. This just sucks, for all of us, not just me. I'm so grateful for this site, I come here and read old articles when I'm really down, but I'm so incredibly sad that we (all of us collectively) need this site.
DeleteAshes,
DeleteI think a lot of us were control freaks. Not sure if that's just a female thing -- we've always got a hundred balls in the air so we need to have everything under control. In any case, one of my biggest epiphanies is realizing that we don't control nearly as much as we think we do. It's an illusion. And an exhausting one. Learning to let go of that illusion and focus solely on what I CAN actually control (which usually amounts to me and me alone) is really liberating.
Maybe im not as stuck as i thought or maybe an epiphany ... ill take it for now knowing as easily as i step forward there is possability to always fall back which is not a failure just a need to revisit and process some more or deal with anything new should it arise ... hope not ... Im almost 7mo out in conjunction to betrayal. .. ive also been dealing with injury/recovery which was very painful and now very limiting and slow recovery ive had weeks on end to lie here by my lonesome and just think ... feel .. absorb. Two interesting things happened .... #1 while on the computer yesterday i noticed my H left his log in to his email saved ... i thought about looking and then clicked off and didnt .... growth idk i think a better grasp to not having control no matter how much i play nancy drew or correctional officer. .. in the long its only torturing me. There are many things i insist on access too and others i dont simply because he could always have another email account. Use another phone. Etc you get the idea and deep down i can only control me not him ... i do tell him this often i cant lock him away only hooe he acts accordingly ...looking for action in the now vs thumbing ever account statement is better use of my time occasionally i may still look at somethings new or revisit old weather that strictly impulse to quiet the obcessive girl in me or really serves a purpose im not sure but its not nearly to the degree and hours spent during the initial months! #2 against my better judgment. .. all this limited downtime i was left with wtf do people do all day at home, limited? My friend (remember no one knows of the affair) suggested i heal while watching a series ironically called the affair on showtime. .. would i be triggered? Obcessed? Set back? reeling or even sobbing on the floor? NOW early on i had trouble even watching tv ... listening to music and realized everything seemed to remind me of love sex affair!!! Im better now ... i devoured this series 2 seasons of episodes filled with cheating, scandal but the best part even if fucking fiction and for entertainment purpose it shows perception from all parties involved and outsiders looking in chime in ... that i identified with and ended thinking it doesnt make it right but truly this shit happens all the time it is just isnt spoken about over dropping the kids off at coffee or in general. I still have my moments of thinking about it ... i still have a ways to go on me and for us in our relationship but it hasnt killed me certianly hurt like hell and my trust and mind altered but still standing ... while dday truly seems like yesterday in the same token i think ... wow 7mo seemed dreadful day by day slow actually went fast the holiday season i was dreading ... today bring it on ill stilk be standing in January. Guess im just rambling and not sure exactly my point ... other than we all have abilities to keep standing up even when it feels hopeless after being knocked down. My H and i still talk about it still ... i think about it still. I try not to throw as many jabs at him.. it will be there always ... but maybe it can be in the rearview mirror vs front and center? One day at a time thats all we truly have to do. Im thankful for finding the BWC and wish you all a little sparkle this Thanksgivings. Xo
ReplyDeleteWounded,
DeleteWow...sounds like you've come a long way in a short period of time. Seven months isn't so long at all, though it likely feels like an eternity. You're right in so many ways. And let me assure you the day will come when it's in the rear-view mirror...or out of view entirely.
Out of the Ashes,
ReplyDeleteWith so much uncertainty in your life and throw out all the healing guidelines that help, like no contact, in your situation. Just a thought to keep you and your husband is moving forward. Sit down and talk - what are his expectations if the baby is or is not his. How involved will he be? How will he handle contact with the OW? What are your expectations? Do you want to be there when he first sees his baby? What is the plan worse case? If you plan and are prepared for the worse and both of you know what the expectations are you can deal with it or say bye-bye. This is HIS mess to clean up. Don't assume so much of the burden, this is not your mess. Some of your posts you almost guessing what he is thinking? You need to know what he is thinking. I ask my husband, pretend I'm dead, not in the picture, what would YOU do? What decisions would you make?if you ask take a day or two to be prepared for his answers. He will not speak his heart if he thinks you will be accusatory, ballistic, go nuts. What I do is tell myself, I'm going to just listen. I'm not going to say one word. Sometimes there are paus s of silence but I just wait and he eventually begins to talking again. I would be asking him a ton of questions about his expectations and having a plan might help with the uncertainty. I can't even imagine your pain.
Out of the ashes,
ReplyDeleteOne more comment you attitude toward this child if it is dumb ass's child is one of compassion, graciousness, a huge heart and that says it all about you. How good a person is that? Your dumb ass husband should be kissing the ground you walk on. Who else can your husband expect to have that in their heart to give? His alternative is to pay up for 2 families. Does he even realize you have the grounds to clean his clock and he will pay for the rest of his life? His future is in your hands. That is something that is certain.
Lynn, thank you. Sometimes I don't realize I need the validation of not being totally crazy until I come here and there is no judgement whatsoever. My husband and I have actually talked the issue through thoroughly, amazingly enough, outside of his piss poor moral decisions, we have always been great communicators. I guess where I get hung up is on the OW. We do want to be involved, truly if I thought she would sign custody over to us entirely I'd do it in a heartbeat, neither of us can truly imagine knowing there is a child out there, a sister to my son, that we don't know, plus the OW is hardly a pillar of morality, among other things, so I feel she'll have a better upbringing with us involved. Because my lack of respect for the OW is so strong, I imagine up all kinds of worst case scenarios for how difficult she will make this. My husband truly does not feel they are a second family, he believes when the baby is with us she's ours and hers when she's with her. And when I first found out and considered staying, he was pretty close to kissing my feet. I guess I struggle because I feel like she'll make it difficult, he'd rather and I'd rather be there when he first meets the baby, but because I think she was counting on this to be her way to get him to leave, she's been a bit bitter, telling me she appreciates how civil I've been (because I'll be nice to her if it kills me and it just might) but it's not my child it's his. Thanks for the reminder, just in case there was a way I could actually forget. I do struggle with control and wanting to know how things are going to work and I know I need to work on that because it's making me crazy. We had asked her to sit down with us to talk about how we all think this might work, but she refused because she's upset we want another DNA test and that my husband won't be there when the baby is born (she's delusional). so she doesn't see a need for us to meet prior. Probably true, the chances aren't good of it not being my husband's but there is a slim one, so could be an unnecessary meeting, would just help my crazy. Thanks for the kind words, I've known without a doubt (which is crazy since I don't know much anymore) that if I stayed, I'd consider this child as much mine as his. Sorry if all of that is out of order, some days I can't seem to process my thoughts clearly.
ReplyDeleteYour thoughts are perfectly clear. More than mine would be in the same situation. Be by your husband's side no matter what. Don't leave him a minute alone with that low life. I would encourage him not to be in labor room. I'm a nurse and it would not be good. Many healthcare workers will assume husband and wife situation. That would not be good. Set boundaries please for your own good. Your willing to take the child with an open heart and that is enough. Do not let your husband alone with this woman ever, never ever that would not be good and a high risk.
DeleteThanks Lynn. H and I talked again this weekend and he is not going to be there when the child is born. I guess I was upset because at first he kept saying he definitely did not want to be there and now its changed to, "you've asked me not to be and I want to respect that", which made me feel like he would resent me if the child ends up being his. He said that he truly does not know if he'll be upset at missing her birth or not if she is his, but it doesn't matter even if he is because he created the situation, so he has no one to blame but himself and will not consider going against my wishes just to be there. I also expressed that I believe being there during her birth would be more for the OW than for the baby as it will not affect the baby in any way, shape or form and he hadn't thought about it like that, which I think settled him even more into being certain he won't be there. My only concern at this point is the day that he'll meet the baby. The DNA test will take 2-3 weeks to come back and I think he's torn as he doesn't really want to see the baby if its not his, but feels like he should in case it is, so I think he wants to meet her before its confirmed. I'm fine with that, but I believe the OW will block me from attending that meeting. I'm torn on how to handle that, but I'm trying to block it from my mind until the time comes to focus on us right now. I can't control what's going to happen at that point (a fact that is killing me, but one lesson I'm learning, thanks to Elle, is that this whole situation has taught me the only control I have is over myself), so I'm going to focus on our healing and connection. I think once we get over the initial hurdle of the meeting the baby, its a moot point as I don't think she'll block me being the one to pick up and drop off the baby (at the very least, she can't stop me from going with him) and we are meeting with our attorney before the baby is even born to know our rights. We'd like to work things out with her in a friendly manner as that's best for the child and then have our agreement documented with the attorneys, but if we can't, then we'll go the legal custody route. On a daily basis, I just cannot believe this is my life. I told my husband a few times during that conversation that this is NOT what life is supposed to be like and he affirmed that over and over. For so many reasons, I believe his regret and remorse, but this sadness that's been hovering around me for the past few weeks can't accept his remorse right now. I told him once in the beginning that even if I left, this would still be my life: my husband still would have cheated, he still would have gotten another woman pregnant and I still would have to deal with the aftermath due to our son, so my choices are to rebuild with him or without him. I've always believed in us, so I choose us, but some days it is SO hard. I don't feel like there is anything special about me or maybe he's here because I'm a good partner in parenting, our business, etc. He swears that's not it and tries very hard with his actions to show me, but how do you get to the point that you believe it?
DeleteJust ask him if his actions like wanting to see the baby before the DNA test is for the OW or the baby. Really what is the baby going to get out of this.
DeleteAt every turn ask him, "is this for the baby or OW?". If he says baby then ask ok how will this help the baby? I would not allow my husband to go see a child that may not be his. Because all he is really seeing is the OW. Keep it clean and play it straight. You still have a long legal road to go if it is his. You don't want the OW taking away more money than is fair from your child to support his other child if either of you jump the gun.
Lynn, that's a good question and one I hadn't thought to ask. I think realistically, it's more for him, not wanting to miss time if the child is indeed his, BUT I do know he will respect my wishes if I say no meeting until after DNA is confirmed. I guess maybe I'm trying to be overly (I don't know what the word I'm looking for is), like I'm okay with him meeting the baby prior to confirmation, as long as I'm there, I don't know why. But if I can't be, then I'm not, crazy, right? I know he'll say for sure its not for the OW, he is adamant that he feels nothing for her. Not sure what I believe. He's said he can't hate her like I do, but dislikes her for his own reasons (like not making sure she was covered, he assumed (his mistake) that she was on birth control and we both believe she was hoping to get pregnant thinking that would spur him to leave me) and for sleeping with another guy at the same time. Regardless, I know I'll have to be okay with contact if it's his, I'm just not comfortable with it happening if I'm not there. Thanks for thinking of that question, it helps so to have a different perspective, especially because the sadness has just overwhelmed me this week and I can't think clearly.
DeleteI am having a bit of a paranoid day. I'm trying to believe in him, but deep down I am so afraid that he is going to betray me again. Some days, all it takes is some behavior of his that is a little "off", and I lose at least a couple of hours to suspicion, speculation, and concern. He calls it "going down the rabbit hole". I know it's not healthy. I guess it's just part of the process. He's about to be out of town for 2 nights. I will join him the second night. And in the meantime I will try to calm my nerves, making cranberry sauce, sweet potato casserole, salad, and gingerbread. And hey, Becky! I joined a gym! We'll see if cooking and exercise can calm my jangled nerves. Thinking of my BWC pals as the holiday looms....!
ReplyDeleteJuniper and Out of the Ashes, I feel for both of you, for the additional grief and burdens you have had to endure. You are in my thoughts and prayers.
Phoenix,
DeleteYes, it is part of the process. Do your best to not give into it, as fear feeds on itself. Try your best to live in the moment and...happy thanksgiving.
Phoenix, I love his description! I feel you, I'm the same way, one thing that I think might be off and I'm on a tangent for hours, if not days. My counselor suggested making a truth list, which has helped me a bit. Even though we don't trust them, if we're trying to work things out, we need to learn to take what they say at face value, especially if they are making what appears to be a good effort at reconciliation. So, for me, my truth today would be that my husband re-iterated again this morning (unprompted) that this is where he wants to be and that he loves me. Its difficult for me to swallow sometimes, because I'm an overthinker (so I read something into every comment or action) and because I don't trust him yet, but her point is that if I'm going to heal, I need to learn to take his actions and words as truth (within reason, if intuition is screaming or something isn't matching up, that's a different story). If I find out later that it isn't, then I deal with it at that time, but if I'm constantly "going down the rabbit hole", I make myself crazy and it can hinder my healing. It isn't perfect (and I don't think at the stage we're both in as if I remember, you aren't too far out from dday either), but it does help pull me out of the hole sometimes and for me, sometimes is better than none. Maybe that would help you too. I'm glad you joined a gym, that's a healthy way to help yourself heal. Praying for you!
ReplyDeleteI know, you're right. I'm really not ready to take what he says at face value yet. But I need to try. And the rabbit hole hurts me more than anyone. But I still feel such a strong need to protect myself.
ReplyDeleteI'll just keep working on it one day at a time. And try to focus in the truths. Thank you!
Phoenix. Good for you!!! I hope exercise and cooking give you an outlet. I know it is so easy to go down the rabbit hole. I have done it many times, but I do think I am slowly making some better choices. Pain shopping is a concept I learned about on this site and it helped to take a hard look at my situation. Was I really at risk or was it fear holding me hostage??? At different times there were different answers. I know it can be even harder when there has been a lot of trickle truth and subsequent lies and d-days.
DeleteWe had a lot of subsequent lies for at least 3 months post the big d day.
Also Junipers recent post really touched my heart and I am trying to choose love, even when I am afraid, angry, or feel small.
Happy thanksgiving - I hope and pray for the best for all of us. I am so thankful for all you ladies and to Elle for this site!!!
Becky.
Hi. I have been reading this site for days now and I am finally deciding to share my story in hopes that it will help because nothing else has. This is my 2nd marriage. The 1st ended badly after 13 years but not due to infidelity. I was that girl. The one that will never love and never marry and will enjoy my freedom forever. Then entered my H. He was everything I never knew I always wanted. We had an amazing relationship and I was truly happy maybe for the first time ever. We dated for a year then lived together for a year then married August 4th of this year. Then...dday. H works out of town a lot. He had a class and was out of town for two months and home on weekends. About 6 weeks ago he had been home for 2 days when I got a Facebook message from the OW saying that she had been having sex with H for a month. He didn't tell her he was married. He didn't even give her his real cell number! He used this girl and made it very easy for himself to cut her off when it was time to come home. I thought at first that that was at least something but I do not feel that way anymore. This girl was shattered. I am shattered. I do not know this person that I am not supposed to share my life with. This is not the man I married. I am heartbroken. I have cried for weeks. The anger is so intense that I find myself saying things that are horrible. He says all the right things but after 6 weeks of my mood swings and me slamming him every time I get the opportunity I'm not sure if fixing this is even a possibility for us. Please help me.
ReplyDeleteRae
Rae I am so sorry, a newlywed and THIS happens. Horrible. I am so sorry. I will never understand why these guys get married.
ReplyDeleteMy H did not tell the other woman he was married either, as a matter of fact I did not exist. I also felt terrible for that girl but since he was using a fake e-mail account we deleted it IMMEDIATELY and have never heard from her, yet I know she could find him and me if she really wanted. I once saw in an email that he told someone he had been in "long term relationship, but nothing serious". Ahem, excuse me?? Oh He had quite an online harem, where he spun AMAZING webs of deceit about what he did for a living, where he lived, he "planned" trips cross country with these broads. offered to pick up their costs etc etc ridiculous.You do not hold the record for saying horrible things although I am sure you have let them FLY. Just believe that. We have all said things, and rightly so, that we didnt even know we could pronounce. and six weeks? Honey you are the one spinning right now. What is he doing about this? How is he treating YOU? Fixing it is possible if he's on board and you're onboard, and if you're not on board, guess what--we get that too.
YOu can, but dont need to decide right now.
Our therapist had us treat the 'relationship" like a 3rd entity. what was good for it and what was bad for it--it was a Godsend Which brings me to therapy. Can you go? Even if your husband will not? and if he wont, that says something. Many hugs to you and this shattered heart you have. We have all been here and are here for you.
Dear Rae,
ReplyDeleteYour marriage/relationship is so NEW!! THIS so soon??? How long will it be before you ever know for certain if this has always been just his lifestyle "pattern"...do you want to stay 5 or 10 more years looking over your shoulders to find that out? I am so sorry, but believe what he DOES rather than him simply "saying all the right things". It may very well be that he has already learned what kind of "right things" to say for these kinds of "occasions". Had he known this girl prior to this particular class? Did he just meet her recently, schmooze her, and then make quick work out of her?
What do you want help for...to stay, or to leave?? There is nothing in between...you will have to work HARD to do either. Each time he works out of town it will set you right back to Dday. My husband is par excellent at using words to spin his stories...but I only believe what he DOES...and that is only when he is in plain view. Even then, I wonder who he is thinking about while using me. This is no way to live...but I am in my sixties now, and found out about his affair exactly a year ago. We have been married ten years. During the first year, I found constant Porn, him pushing me for sexual perversions, and noticed his constant flirting with his customers. It has been a long slow "death" and a life filled with shame, pain and mistrust. I want nothing more now except peace of mind...and I only know of one way left to get it at this point since I have lost all trust in him and he has DONE NOTHING to try and restore it. I wanted confession and full disclosure...he wont give me that. He still stays up till 2am on line long after I have gone to bed. I do not know what he does at work...or "who" he is fantasizing about.
I went to the Lord last year when I first found out about this affair. I was going to go straight to a Lawyer, but made that diversion first. I felt that I was impressed to wait one year, then go back to the Lord to see what He wants me to do. This gave me a calm and the ability to remain kind and loving. We read the WHOLE Bible this past year together every night.
Well, just three weeks ago, my husband said "I am going to put you out of your torment...I want a divorce". It emotionally felt like he was just saying that he was going to go upstairs to brush his teeth. I have slowly grown numb and detached over the years (while still smiling)...but the affair pushed me over the top and now I find that I no longer care. So I suppose the Lord KNEW that he would announce his desire for divorce just weeks before I was going to seek Him about our "issue" again. It is out of my hands and I am finally going to be at peace.
Sweetz,
DeleteI'm so sorry for what you've been through and for the absolute lack of respect and regard your husband has shown you. Him leaving you is, perhaps, the nicest things he's done. I hope you'll nonetheless take the time to work through your pain so that you're free of him emotionally too.
Thank you Elle...you are absolutely correct. His announcement is the kindest thing that he is capable of, given the fact that he cannot bear to examine his OWN soul. It is a relief. Game is up...he has become very cold and disconnected as if I was ever the problem. He started this affair at a time in our lives when we had everything good going on...new house, weekly bible study with family and friends, great income, peace between us. I thought he was committed and began to relax (not snooping). Then BLAM!! I walked straight into him having a private lunch with a woman alone in the back room of his store. This had been going on for several months. He does not even blush. I am nothing more to him except the hole that he uses while waiting for the hole that he prefers. He does not even attempt to have sex with me anymore since then (thank God). As a couple, we are dead...actually, it was only me that was once alive in this relationship all along dragging a dead man...trying to prop him up, thinking that I had something special...waiting for him to "see the light".
DeleteHi, Rae. Steam gave you really good input. I'm pretty new and my situation is different, but I just want to add moral support. Your mood swings are understandable! We all have them. You've been dealing with shock, pain, anger, and a terrible disillusionment. That this has happened so early in your marriage doesn't bode well at all, but of course you know that. I am worried for you and hoping this is not a pattern of behavior for him. When you can handle it, try to get him to talk about it as much as he can or as much as you can stand. You're right, he's not the guy you thought he was, and you've got to figure out whether you can live with the guy you've got. Be good to yourself, take your time, and figure this out. You can do this. It is terribly unfair and wrong that you have to do it - but you can. We feel your pain. (((Hugs)))!!
ReplyDeleteThe answer to almost all of your questions is I have no idea. I don't know if I want to leave or stay. Sometimes I am terrified that he will leave me...other times I would love to pack is crap and throw it in the front yard (I actually have done that twice now). He says that he never wanted to leave. That it was just sex and it was there and that it was stupid. No he did not know her before. He used her and dropped her which makes him a horrible person. He has agreed to full disclosure. He has answered all of the questions that I have asked and I believe most of what he said. He has agreed to counseling...although we haven't gone because there are only 2 within 40 miles of where we live and neither take my insurance. I have full access to his phone and email and I check it almost obsessively. I stalk the OW on Facebook because I am truly afraid that she is going to be pregnant. This is not who I am. This is not my normal behavior. Sweetz...looking over my shoulder and being afraid forever is not what I want and is actually my biggest fear. I have no doubt that he is sorry and that he intends to not do this again. I'm just not sure how long that will actually last. And I KNOW that he is very good at saying what he needs to say when he needs to say it. Steam I actually made him open a Facebook account so there will be no denying my existence in the future. Anybody that Googles him sees him standing with me. I didn't make it an option. Can you tell me more about the 3rd entity things?
ReplyDeleteAnd thank you. I have had no one for weeks.
Rae,
DeleteI am so sorry. Everything you write is something we've all experienced, including the torment of feeling damned if you stay and damned if you don't.
My experts recommend waiting six months at least before you make any long-term decision re. your marriage. You want to make a calculated choice and it's hard to do that when you're reeling. (Exceptions, of course, if you're unsafe or it's clear that he will hurt you further -- but that's doesn't seem to be the case for you.)
In the meantime, counselling will be money well spent. It will give you the chance to really understand what was behind his crazy actions. "Just sex" is not the whole story but until he can really understand the story he was telling himself that made it okay, you'll not be able to trust that he won't do it again. Insight will help both of you decide whether or not the marriage can be rebuilt. You'll also get clearer on whether you can respect the man he's becoming or if you simply can't or won't. That's your choice.
In the meantime, though we've all flung some pretty harsh words at our husband, I think what Steam is saying by treating the marriage as a 3rd entity is to ask whether you're helping or harming the relationship. What he did was devastating. But my guess is that berating him for it isn't moving either of you further toward healing, which is what you each ultimately want -- whether together or apart.
Hang in there, Rae. Be gentle with yourself. Take the time to let the dust settle and see where you really want to be. This isn't a sprint, it's a marathon.
Rae...sometimes "just sex" is the hard truth of the matter. But it indicates a very shallow heart. Too many of our men grew up in the "free sex" culture and would develop a lifestyle of changing partners like changing underwear. They objectify women and see them as desirable body parts for their pleasure...so it does not surprise me that they cannot love deep enough to honor, respect and cherish the wife they finally decide to marry.
ReplyDeleteMarriage too often is a convenience for these men who are still thinking and feeling as though they are single with "benefits" in a marriage. That your husband used this poor girl like a hole and then tossed her aside like a used paper towel indicates that he has a very shallow heart. It probably WAS just sex. But then that begs the question as to why he could not wait until the weekends to have sex with YOU...even if for no other reason than to keep his own integrity.
Love is not what you say...because as you know, we can all say all sorts of things when the pressure is on...Love is what you DO when no one else is looking. You are going to become the "marriage police" for years to come unless your husband finds out WHY he can do what he did with no conscience or consideration as to how it would effect you. He did not make a mistake...he took each and every calculated step to deceive both you and that other girl. This is not like tripping over a crack in the pavement or balancing the checkbook wrong.
So yes...it is probably "just the sex"...but it is also "just me" that my husband has destroyed.
Rae, the not knowing if you want to leave or stay is so tough. It took me over a year to really feel comfortable in my decision to stay. I wanted so bad to save my marriage, and yet every day I thought about packing my bags and driving off and never coming back. It was a choice I made every day to not do that. I would tell myself, "I won't leave today, but the option is still open if I decide to leave tomorrow." Instead of making that decision for the rest of my life, I just made the decision for now. Trying to make a forever decision was just too much. Making a decision to give it one more day was doable.
ReplyDeleteAnd while I wasn't doing it to punish him, my husband finally had to be on the receiving end of not knowing where things stood between us. He didn't know every day when he came home from work whether I'd still be there or not. It helped me feel a little less powerless and a little less of a victim in this situation. I may not have had the choice of him staying faithful (that's on him), but I have the choice in what I do about it. It's totally okay and normal to have such mixed feelings. I went on big mood swings from, "We're going to make it," to, "This is hopeless, why am I even trying?!" As Elle has said on this site, crazy is the new normal after betrayal.
Have you spoken to your doctor about counselling? Often they know of more affordable options. We were able to find free community counselling that I hadn't even known existed.
Wow Gee...that is basically what the Lord was having ME do by impressing that I should wait a year. I had a whole year to just cruise along and wait to see if my husband would show some level of remorse, confession and honesty without any "prompting" coming from me. I told him what I expected from him three times...he simply will not do it. The closest he came was to say that "he can not measure up to my expectations".
ReplyDeleteThen, I realized that the end of THIS month, it would mark the end of the full year that I was "supposed" (and willing) to wait...and I would then need to go back to the Lord. But I secretly dreaded being "the one" who would have to erect the tombstone on the marriage...even though I have had plenty of time to know that it was inevitable. This decision was mercifully taken entirely out of my hands just in time...and without any provocation on my part. I am grateful. I cannot imagine the angst I would have felt having to file for divorce myself after hoping against hope for so many years. It seemed unnatural regardless...like having to put a seriously wounded dog out of its misery using my own bare hands.
Rae, sweetheart...if YOU are the one doing all the heavy lifting trying to make yourself comfortable and the marriage "work"...the one calling all the shots as to what "should" be done...with him just going along with "your" program, then something is wrong. Even if he goes along with your "needs/demands", HE should be the one seeking to find out WHY he could so easily do what he did/does. He should be the one too, ON HIS OWN, seeking out the answers for what goes on in his mind and heart. Right now, he may just be telling you what he thinks you want to hear...and he might be pretty good at that. So stop asking questions and let him ask his own questions...and get his own answers from someone who cannot be spun or manipulated...someone who has no skin in the game.
Take a year and see if he does this. Do not compromise yourself. Follow your heart and do not play the "pick me dance" for him. If you don't want him to touch you...make him wait until you ARE comfortable. You do not have to win any competition. Do NOT make him think that this time that you are willing to give the marriage is simply something that you needed so that YOU can "get over it". This...you do not ever get over. What you do get, if you are fortunate, is ample time to give to HIM for an opportunity to get an understanding of HIS morals and weaknesses...and perhaps maybe he will move you up a notch or two in his heart permanently. It is a gamble.
Rae. Elle is right. We had to decide what was good and what was bad for the third entity--the relationship. But my husband was remorseful as hell. He could hardly look at me without crying. And me? Between screaming I rarely stopped. But we were in therapy within 9 days of D day so our behaviors HAD to change immediately. Didn't mean we didn't talk. Didn't mean i didn't cry. What I had to do was figure out if screaming at him was good for the relationship. It wasn't of course and I did it anyway of course. But it was not my normal "mode" He really had to face why he did this. He had to learn why "just sex" was so much more. And yes it was just sex in the long run but that is just as hurtful as anything else. He had a long distance relationship with this girl (1 of 2 that got physical). But there were tons of others he reached out to. were coming up on 2 years of D day and it truly feels like it happened to two different people. But I owe so so so much to therapy. I am pretty sure we would not have made it alone. No one trains you for marriage. No one EVER expects to have to deal with an affair. Ir rocks you to the core. Crazy is crazy and you get to be that and your husband doesn't get to tell you that you are. This is his problem He is the one that stepped out. Please find options for therapy Please go. It won't solves everything but it might help
ReplyDeleteAnd sweetz. Sorry your husband is such a jerk. I hope you FLY.
hi i found out in march my husband of 15 years has been sleeping with prositutes. Lied to me and the children. i am devasted heartbroken. He was my soulmate. We are trying to recover from this had counselling but i an struggling.
ReplyDeleteI feel so alone.Unless you have been through this then no one understanda the pain in your heart.
Anonymous,
DeleteWe know the pain in your heart. Whatever your story is...we know that pain. Welcome to the club nobody wants to join. We're here. To listen. To support. To assure you that you will get through this.
Thankyou. I feel so alone. How do I move on ? when does the pain go? How can I ever trust him again? How could he do this to me to our family. I gave everything. Now I just need to heal for me as a person. I thought I couldn't cry anymore...
DeleteAnonymous, you're in good company here and you are not alone. I've just recently found this site and the compassion and support here is unparalleled. It's so normal to still be struggling, especially if you've felt alone throughout the past few months. I'll be praying for you! Hugs!
ReplyDeleteYou get tired of struggling. Just want a magic pill to take it all away.! Its good to talk to people who know what you are feeling .x
DeleteHi ladies! I woke up yesterday feeling rather "stuck". I knew the holidays were going to be hard, but I had no idea until I woke up yesterday thinking how I always gushed about how grateful I was for my husband, compounded by the fact that we're about a week away from when he met the OW last year and 3 away from when he went down the slippery slope of exchanging numbers (does anyone wonder how much harder cheating would have been in the days before email and smartphones and if it happened less because accessibility was not as common?). I desperately wish I could go back in time to shake him and make him see what he had, because in the end, what happened is he started to feel entitled for how hard he worked, etc., and started to resent me for nagging about money, work, etc and failed to appreciate what he had, which he will readily say after he slowly came to that realization over the past few months. Anyway, I woke up yesterday (and today) feeling stuck. On Facebook, I like almost as many inspirational/Christian pages as I have friends, maybe more as I'm pretty selective about who I friend. The first thing that popped up yesterday morning was a quote that said "Stuck is a pit stop, not a full stop". Pretty sure that was meant just for me to see and I wanted to share it with all of you feeling stuck. Sometimes I get so mired in the stuck/hopelessness that I forget this is not our final destination. I hope that quote may help some of you as it did me. I'm so thankful I've found this site and for the companionship and wisdom shared here.
ReplyDeleteOut of the Ashes,
DeleteI agree wholeheartedly. We think we're going to feel a certain way "forever". But sometimes we just need to pause and digest things before we carry on. Sometimes we need to listen more closely to our hearts. Sometimes we're just stuck and need to press pause before making any decisions.
Thank you guys so much. You have given me so much to think about. Steam we will definitely be seeking therapy next week. I don't know where this is going. I have given myself six months to decide and to see if the changes last. Sweetz I am so sorry for everything you have been through. Know you are in my prayers.
ReplyDeleteI also like the idea of the marriage being the third entity. Many times I've realized that I can make the decision to tear into him again because I'm angry, or I can instead find a more positive way to deal with it. While I may feel like hurting him, in doing so, I also hurt the marriage. And I want the marriage to survive. Sometimes I've taken the high road. Sometimes not. And every time that I've decided to use my words like weapons, I've regretted it. I can take him down with just a few words. And I might feel better. For about two seconds. Then we're both just upset and miserable.
ReplyDeleteThat's not to say we don't talk about it, or that there aren't hard discussions with a lot of crying involved. But I have to choose between honest communication and pushing his buttons. It's very tempting to push those buttons, but in the end, I'm only hurting both of us.
Huge difference between using words to communicate even hard feelings and using words to wound. Sounds like you've learned a lot, Gee.
DeleteRae, Sweetz, Out of the Ashes, my heart is with each of you. It does get easier, and you are not alone. I've said some harsh things to h since d-day, but I'm doing better. I made him leave the house for six months for fear I would murder him in his sleep. I took a scissors to his lucky jeans, starting with the crotch, leaving nothing but threads (no, he was not in them). He earned his way back by taking full responsibility for his binge drinking, porn habit, and lousy judgment. I feel like I was there, I tell him. I feel like I was raped. He never argued, even when I was mean. A year later, I don't live there any more. My rages are less frequent, less intense. I have badgered the witness, and his story has not changed. I learned to respond with, "Part of me believes you." A friend suggested the six month rule, and it helped-- it saved me from the torture of "deciding" every day. IC, MC, and meetings. Medication for his irritibility (read: depression) was a game changer. A quote from Kathie Lee Gifford in People this year, re: her husband's detour: "If I had left him during his temporary insanity, my children would not have their father." I seek healthy role models and find plenty here at BWC. It helps. No one can decide for you, and we're here either way. Hugs to all.
ReplyDeleteThanks Snowbird. It's nice to hear there is life after all of this. My H and I had a huge fight on Thanksgiving Day. I read in an earlier post about gushing over your husband in years past. I did the same. Last year it was look how lucky I am. Look how happy I am. This year I don't feel the same.
ReplyDeleteIn that fight I told him that I don't know if I want to be married to him. I haven't said that to him out loud since I let him come home but it is the truth. I walked in on him crying later that night. That almost never happens and it was obvious that it wasn't something he wanted me to see. I wanted very much to go to him and comfort him and say that everything is going to be ok. I walked out of the room and closed the door behind me. I don't know what that means.
Dearest Rae, You don't have to know what it means when you leave h alone in his pain, or what comes next. He created this mess. Someone wise told me not to take the crisis away. Sometimes I would sit with h and let him cry and tell me how much it hurt (unless he was trumping my pain, in which case I would tell him not your turn right now, I'm the one hurting). Please be patient, and take good care of yourself. This is going to take a while. P.S. I usually post as snowblind, as h picked out a snowblower for his birthday (how symbolic) just days before he stepped out on me, which I promptly returned to the hardware store. I also called cable and canceled the sports package (savings: $100/month). I'll try snowbird from now on. Thank you for that. :)
DeleteRae, I posted that and I'm with you, this year is totally different and in all honesty, Thanksgiving was a huge trigger day for me, and it sounds like probably for you too. I don't think you have to figure out what it means that you walked out, at least right now. I think it says a lot about what a good person you are that you wanted to comfort him in his pain, but yours is so fresh and huge that it's okay that you can't step outside of that to offer him, the source of your pain, comfort and that's perfectly okay and normal. Sometimes when my husband cries or is upset I want to do whatever I can to take his pain away and sometimes I'm glad, why should I be the only one shedding tears? I don't have any answers for you, but lots of empathy and prayers!
DeleteI survived Thanksgiving at the in-laws with my H and kids. The weather was crappy - not much time to myself, but I tried to have "some" time alone to just "be". There was a point when I lost it as my H found me in the kitchen with tears in my eyes...H says "come on, Smile"! This is one of the many comments he would say to me over the past 27 years ...more so I supposed during his relationship with OW. SMILE - really?? Can't I just have one damn moment where I can be sad without YOU telling me to SMILE? F#@K off. Seriously. So I went upstairs....to be alone.
ReplyDeleteThe holiday pressure is on - H has more traveling to cram in before the end of the year; his mom is not able to drive due to recent health issues, his dad CAN'T drive, hear or see well; No other sibling lives within 1,000 miles of his folks but us. H feels the pressure, gets more quiet...I let H know I am hear if he needs me. I will talk when he wants. H is sad his parents are getting old. But guess what?? His parents have been in this state for the past 6 years - H has been, well, otherwise occupied. I don't want the state of our marriage to add to his burdens - but I can't help but think H has put himself in this position. Denial of a lot of things - including the what to do about his parents. Now, I am working full time - I can't help (won't do it) for weeks out of town, on end. Because this only allowed him to carry on his relationship with that SKANK OW.
Thank god I see my counselor this week - I NEED it. My H will have his 3rd session with his individual counselor, if he doesn't cancel. His perogative.
We are back home and H is uncomfortable. Playing what I call the "there is nothing wrong" game. But I am tuned in - maybe too much to his "I am shutting you out" attitude as this is what got us where we are today. I HAVE NO CONTROL over any of this and I HATE IT.
Everything seems so complicated, too much going on again...H's parents failing health, H feeling the pull to spend more time there, us trying to get into our new house BEFORE Christmas, H trying to wrap up end of year travel, ME working at a new job, NO family or friends (except my best friend and our two kids) knowing about our current struggles .... sometimes it all seems like way too much. I know "One Day At A Time" - I've known this since 5th grade. I am not good at it. Never have been.
I'm just sad I guess tonight - for many reasons. Tomorrow will be another day.
How can I be there for my H when H hasn't been there for me in 18 fucking years (whether I knew it or not)????
Hugs to you, 1998, I can't believe how much you have on your plate. I am so sorry. Praying for you.
Delete1998,
DeleteIt feels like too much because it IS too much. Maybe it's time to pare down to only what you need to deal with today. It's too easy to get overwhelmed with everything. What do you need to do today? What can you control today? Let go of the rest. The world won't grind to a halt because you don't have 23 balls in the air. It will mean living with that uncomfortable feeling in your stomach. That anxiety. But it won't kill you. And in the meantime, it will free you up to just focus on you. Your healing. What you need. To hell with the rest. At least for now.
I think I am imagining that things are getting better. The truth is I am a breath away from asking my H to move out.
ReplyDeleteI'm so sorry, Becky. I'll be thinking of you.
DeleteBecky, I wish I could give you a real hug! I'll be praying for you. We're here if you want to talk about it.
DeleteWhatever choice you make, Becky, you will get through this. It's hell...but it won't be hell forever.
DeleteOh Becky, hugs! Did something specific happen? I'll pray for you today!
ReplyDeleteHi. I've posted as Anon over on the Finding out page but I'm thinking the original finding out is over and now I'm into sorting things out mode. I had a couple of silent gut wrenching sobbing on the floor realization days before I confronted him four weeks ago with solid evidence, I think that would be D-day? As I said over on the other page, he continued texting but did not see her after the initial two good bye meetings, as far as I know--- which isn't really much when you only have their word in the beginning. So I'm desperately looking for positives to save our marriage, which I believe I have some to hang onto. (I believe---for now?). I finally have access to his phone & Facebook messages with his knowledge, and his phone is tracking is turned on. Of course he could delete any that come in when I'm not there and he could call her when he's out with a no contact at home rule--on and on possible scenarios that my brain keeps churning out----. (OMG this is going to last awhile isn't it). The sad 'good' news is that two nights ago he had quite a few drinks and told me that "today is the saddest I've ever been in my life". Long story short, he told me the guilt makes his head feel like it's going to explode. He says he is going over and over "why" and what lead there. He is angry he was tracked/and had a PI follow him, yet in the same sentence says it's on him, he would have done the same thing is our roles were reversed. He also told me he is very depressed about his career and had a bigger vision for himself, which he has told me in the past as well. I feel so bad for him---but then I think of what he put me through. I saw some messages from OW that he showed me, that show how desperately in love she is with him as well as seeing a video from the PI where I could tell immediately that she was enthralled with him, the way she looked at him. I believe she planned on building a new career with him as well, so her future was becoming wrapped up in him, at least in her mind. For some reason, I don't hate her. I'm sure I will if I find out he is still seeing her of course!! Something that made me feel more 'sure' of his honesty that he is through with her, is that I found a deleted phone message from late morning of the day that he met with her to call it off the last time. (before the texting continued of course). CONTINUED BELOW
ReplyDeleteI'd never heard her voice before, it was surreal. She sounded wounded and trying to control herself telling him since her texts weren't getting through and he was not answering his phone that she had to leave this message and to PLEASE call her. He had told me she begged him to talk in person, which he gave into. I think the guilt he feels isn't for me, but for hurting her as well. He says I'm sorry every so often but not that he feels guilty for hurting me. I've been able to check his phone every morning which is when many of the good night messages were found and there haven't been any since Thanksgiving night. (maybe her family talked some sense into her and she finally mulled it over??!!) My big thing right now is he is Jeckyl and Hyde on being tracked. He HATES it. He made a comment on the way out the door "Have fun tracking me". When I say it's just to prevent me having to worry he says "I understand", but in not such a friendly way. He told me the night he was drinking that he knows he brought that on himself as well and that he's not going to act like he's happy about it. Fair enough I guess but he's making me more uncomfortable with it. I shouldn't have to be uncomfortable with it! I'm taking some of the advice from around here and not asking for extra old details but I find myself still in detective mode, which I believe would be prudent for a few more months at least anyway. I just wish I could do it without the adrenaline searches. Anyway, I'm so happy you all are here so we can support each other through this insanity that we did not deserve. Not fair!!
ReplyDeleteAnna,
DeleteAt a certain point, you'll have to stop the surveillance. The idea isn't to literally prevent him from straying but to encourage him to stop and think twice about any contact he might make -- to take that breath and really think through the consequences before he decides what action to take. While the PI might give you a measure of comfort right now, it's not a sustainable method for rebuilding trust. To do that, you're going to have to live with anxiety. If you truly can't trust him, then that speaks to whether you should be in the marriage with him.
It can be really hard to listen to our spouse whine about their crappy lives when we want to scream "look at what you did to MINE!" But the fact that he's letting himself look critically and honestly at his life is actually a good thing. A big part of his role is figuring out what stories he was telling himself that allowed him to cheat. If his "story" is, "my life hasn't turned out, I'm miserable, etc. WITHOUT taking any responsibility for how things have turned out, then it's easier for someone to fall prey to an affair. The excitement, the ego strokes, the escape from reality. But if they can realize it's a story they're telling themselves...and take responsibility for why they're lives are like this, then they're more likely to make healthy mature choices.
In any case, I know you're going through hell. And I know how terrifying it is to realize we can't control what they do (we never could, we never will). But that terror is your cue that you're trying to control something you can't. I would urge you to focus on you and your healing.
Thank you! I will take heed and try to focus on myself. I need to get over this obsessing, I'm not getting enough done to build my future at this point. As far as the PI, it was only just before D-day I hired them, not after. I just needed to be 100% sure before I confronted him because I didn't want more lies and confusion. He did turn the regular tracking on on his phone so I can see where he is. I'm feeling pretty trusting now but being able to check has already been great at heading off potential heart attack worry sessions. Just seeing he is where he says is a life saver for now. As far as his taking responsibility, he's got some ways to go I think. I'll keep an eye out for where he places the blame as time moves on. I like the way you frame it as the story he tells himself. He had/has quite a doozey going I believe but the details are yet to come.
DeleteWill we ever get to the point where we stop hurting each other? I'm just so sad. Today I came across a picture of us that was taken back in January when we attended a coworker's wedding. She had everyone's picture taken for her guest book and then sent us copies, which I received 3 weeks after DDay 1, when I believed that it was an emotional affair, 3 DDays before our final and full disclosure. It's a truly great picture of us and again, he wasn't super clear on when he affair started but based on his story, I thought it was taken right before hand. I promptly shared it on Facebook with a caption about what a great picture and probably something along the lines of it being a rough year, but grateful for him (seriously, I was THAT naive). Fast forward a few days later to DDay two when I caught them texting. Her ex had taken our picture, shared it on a fake page the two of them made up years ago along with a caption of "wonder if this was taken before he started talking to a 25 year old with two kids. He also sent me a private Facebook message about being heartbroken (they weren't together but he wants to be with her and I know now she was still sleeping with him along with my h). I didn't see any of that until after, but my h's story was that she had contacted him after seeing that her ex had done that and "don't worry, she deleted it". I found later she hadn't and saw the picture and caption. After full and final disclosure, I know now my husband had slept with her either a few days before or the day of her ex doing this, even though he supposedly was NC with her. I stupidly believed that she really had just reached out to him about that and he was livid when I found she hadn't deleted the page. Finding the picture today made me so sad, because he was over a month into his affair with her when it was taken, back when I thought life was great. I feel as though the picture was violated because her ex and her were using it to suit their purposes (my fb account has the highest privacy setting but I had posted that as a profile picture) and hey, I'm a little bitter that the last time he slept with her was when I was posting and thinking how grateful I was that we had a marriage to save, plus based on her due date, the last time was the time she got pregnant... I threw the picture in the trash. My husband saw it when he went to throw something away and asked my son why he had done it. I told him I had because it was the picture that was used and plus, joe happy was that time in our life since it was a lie? He left the room. I went to him and bit later and he said he as just hurt about the picture and was I going to throw every picture away from that time frame (well, sometimes it crosses my mind, so who knows?). I told him everything that had gone through my mind when I found it but did apologize for hurting him because it truly wasn't my intent and he apologized as well. But now, we're sitting in separate rooms of the house, with that between us. How do we stop the pain from tearing us apart? Why do I even care that I hurt his feelings after everything he's done to me? And why do I want to go bed him to start over this evening when I feel like he should be reaching out to me, knowing that I'm hurting more today?
ReplyDeleteAshes,
DeleteAs much as we don't want to hear it in the early days, you're both hurting. And while I think your pain trumps his at the moment, that doesn't mean his isn't valid at all.
Your response to his pain shows compassion. That's a good thing. Being in separate rooms when you each are hurting makes me think you're both mired in your own pain rather than reaching out to each other. Betrayal is devastating to the betrayed...but the betrayer, if he's a relatively decent guy, has to come to terms with what he's done, which is no picnic. Learning to share in each other's pain is part of a healthy marriage.
I'm so sorry, Out of the Ashes. It's difficult and painful, trying to keep loving the person who has hurt us so badly. Hugs - I'm thinking of you and praying for you.
ReplyDeleteI am just so sad. I don't know if my marriage will ever be fully healthy. The truth is things are better - time alone has helped (it will be 6 months) on Thursday. But we have also worked hard! We are able to talk calmly and listen, when it does really heat up when have a greater ability to recover. We had sex for the first time in years. We have a lot of love and commitment together. BUT, I know he is not 100 percent honest with me. He has so so so many trust issues and other issues from childhood. I don't think he is being malicious, but he is also not totally honest.
ReplyDeleteI don't know what to do with this. Will it get better with time and counseling??? Wait it out? Try to help? Force something? I often feel like a fool.
I do know and understand a good bit about his pain and struggles - and they are very real. But, I don't know if I can feel it. How do I hold space for his pain when I still feel so consumed by mine. Often the directions our conversations take, this is essentially his request of me. " I know I hurt you, but hold space for my pain". This seems super human. I love him so much and want to help. But I don't know if I can or even if I know how.
Love and support to all
Becky.
Becky, it's so hard and I'm so sorry you're struggling with this. Why do you think he's not being honest with you? how does he react when you confront him about it? Praying for you!
DeleteI'm sorry, Becky. I understand. I also feel the hopelessness wondering if we will ever have a healthy relationship. I love my husband, but what happened is always there, between us. And trust is always, always an issue.
DeleteOur men ARE suffering, there is no doubt. But we can't heal their pain, and we feel overwhelmed trying to recover from our own. I don't know if we are recovering, or heading toward another blow-up. I know we're not happy. But we do seem to be better than we were a month ago...
I'll be thinking about you today, honey. May you be blessed, comforted, and strengthened. Hugs!!!
Becky,
DeleteIn the early days, I think it's a matter of triage. You stem your bleeding as best you can and he focuses on supporting you through it. I do think your agony takes priority because he created this. A driver doesn't agonize over hitting someone without first tending to the needs of the person sprawled on the road.
That said, I think you are recognizing that he's hurting. But he's hurting because of choices he made. You're hurting because of choices HE made. It's not the same thing. I'm sure you are "holding space" for his pain...but the devastation of betrayal consumes everything. I'm not sure he understands just how excruciating being betrayed is.
Hi Ladies
DeleteThank you for responding - knowing you are here means so much. Elle, your right I really don't think he fully comprehends how excruciating this is for me and all I am doing to not dissolve into complete mess angry, hurt, fearful crazy person. I was that for about 3 months - but now at 6 months I really want to be repairing and healing in healthy ways.
With that said his pain is related to the affair but also so many other things - family baggage, death and suicide. Even though he doesn't totally know how hard this is for me he is doing his best to be supportive and is loving and committed. BUT - there is still not full honesty. He will not tell the truth about certain things and when I confront him he denies that he is lying and is super hurt that I am accusing him. (Ahhhhh). I think I feel angry and hurt because his best may not be all I need or deserve.
I am finding it super hard to stay present with my fears, to lean in or soften into my fears of emotional betrayal. It seems to much safer to act out - scream, interrogate him, snoop ect... But I am so tired of these actions and they exacerbate my fear and pain. How do we soften to fear and embrace trust even when it seems to be the scariest thing to do?
I know I can recognize his pain, but I'm not holding space for it.... I guess the question is can I find a way to soften with my fears and hold space for him. So he can gain some healing too and then be more able to fully support and help me. Sigh and sigh. Thanks for listening ladies... Love and support.
Becky I can relate. Sometimes it's hard for me to even acknowledge his pain when I can't even breath through my own. I don't know if his pain is even real. He has stopped discussing it with me. When he says he's sorry I can't help but think that he is sorry he got caught. He says that he was going to tell me himself but I don't know if I believe that.
ReplyDeleteThe hardest thing for me isn't so much that he had sex with somebody else or even the relationship...as it was. It is the lies. I now question every single thing that he has ever said to me. Can you love somebody and do this? Is that even possible? Am I kidding myself?
On a brighter note. I made an appointment with a therapist. I did not make his appointment because it is important to me that he does it himself. He says he is going to. We haven't found a marriage counselor in our area but I hope that my therapist can recommend someone.
Thanks you guys. Seriously.
Rae,
DeleteSo glad you've got an appointment with a therapist. That's your place to unload and work through all that pain in a way that moves you forward.
Your questions will be answered. It IS the lies that ultimately do the most damage. He needs to show you, day by day, week by week, that he is rebuilding a marriage based on honesty and transparency.
Some people say what you want to hear rather than tell the truth.
ReplyDeleteIt's been two and a half years since DDay. First I was told things like they layed on the bed in the hotel, took their clothes off. Even her boobs, knickers etc where not all that! That she gave him a hand job in the first hotel as he didn't have a condom.
I still think this was the truth but he now says nothing happened. She had a phone call while in the first hotel and had to go. That they didn't touch the bed and he went into the bathroom but came straight out again and said its not right and won't work in the second hotel
I know they didn't have sex as he has ED and her husband was texting me st the time giving me info. He was more upset about me knocking on their front door and that she had messed around with a married man! Than the affair.
He hates himself and wants us to move on. He is has completely changed as s person.
To me it's not just that he found someone he really liked that hurts. Although he says he didn't know what he liked and that he didn't. It's that he's happy to spend that rest of our lives knowing he's lying to me.
Am I so wrong to want to know the truth. Why can't I except the affair as the whole picture and except he wants me now more than ever in the past 34 years. He's sorry and will be for the rest of he's life. If he could un do it he would! But guess any cheater, murderer, rapist etc would when their caught!
Jane,
DeleteNo I don't think it's wrong to want to know the truth. It's one reason why I disagree with advice columnists (or well-meaning friends) who encourage a cheater to stop the cheating but not tell the wife/husband. I think we all deserve to know what our spouse has done that violates the promises we've made.
Perhaps it's enough to know that he cheated on you. An emotional affair is a violation as much as a physical affair.
But given that you're 2 1/2 years along and it's still bothering you, I think it needs addressing. It might sound drastic but women have insisted their spouses submit to lie detector tests (sometimes knowing the test is coming is enough to get them to come clean). My husband agreed to a "full disclosure" session with a therapist. I ultimately decided I didn't want any more disclosure than I already had. I had enough information: who, how long, where, etc. Anything else was just going to be agony.
But YOU get to decide what you know and don't know. If he won't be totally transparent, then you have to figure out what you can live with and what you won't live with.
The truth is all I have wanted from the beginning. Just no more half truths, half-ass whatever. From the day I found out and then the two weeks it took to actually have proof he was lying - he still lied. I expect that. But it has been me the whole time that has been persistent in finding the real answers - the truth. So - as I told our marriage counselor - IT'S SO IMPORTANT to me to know WHY he didn't leave her, end the relationship (which he can now actually call it) for 18 years. Lynn has talked about an emotional time line - I NEED that. I know it sounds crazy - maybe close to pain shopping. But I don't think so. It's been almost 5 months since Dday. But it has been hell - and H's answers were always " I don't remember" or "I don't know why" etc - H can now say at the beginning "I thought it was just a fling" and "it was only sexual" - but H can't go further. H's comments were that after that it was just more "?" and it was easier to just stay in the relationship.
DeleteLook - I can assume a whole lot from all of this. But I feel that my H needs to come clean and finally give me the respect he never showed for the past 18 years. Man-up and tell me - I want to hear you explain or at least tell me why you could not leave her until I found out.
I need to know the depth of their relationship - what kept H there? This started when our two kids were 7 and 9 and today they are 24 and 26.
His comment to me is - "I am working on it." "Just when I think we make progress - you do this". I do what? ASK for the fucking millionth time "WHAT KEPT YOU WITH OW". It's important for me to fill in the blanks. There are so many - and all he really wants to do is move on. Don't get me wrong - he is working, and is being more honest about a lot of things - but NOT what I have been asking, I told my H and counselor in our last meeting - I NEED this - It's something I NEED to process and help me move on.
We are at an impasse. H almost wanted to tell me last night - but said he is afraid I will leave if he tells me. So everyone - I ask you.... what can be worse than knowing your H was involved with OW for 18 years of your 27 year marriage,
If the only way he thinks you'll stay in the marriage is if you don't know the truth about your husband's actions...then he's got a pretty crazy notion of marriage. You deserve to know what you want to know. It's that simple. To deny you the truth you're asking for is to disrespect you all over again. He doesn't get to control this, which is what he's trying to do.
DeleteAs Steam on this site has said (to great applause), "My heartbreak, my rules."
Becky and others who are stuck or new:
ReplyDeleteI know that feeling so well, sadness that will not go away, feeling so much pain that you can't even see him in pain for what he's caused. It took months for me to see his pain as I wallowed in my own most of the time by myself as he was traveling every other week for work. The first six months his ow would not leave us alone to work through anything as she was so hoping to run me off so she could have him for herself even though he had told her in texts that he didn't want a relationship with her whether our marriage survived or not. Slowly after the nc order was signed by a judge for harrasment, my h and I began the slow process of first the timeline of the affair and then the root cause of the affair in general as to where h was in his head and heart. Once these hard issues were discussed not once but many times over several months then we could begin to find our way back to a relationship that feels more comfortable than we have had in years. Does that mean everything is great every day? No there are good and bad times just like there was before he chose to cheat as an escape from the pain and problems we were facing then. The holiday we just shared with our children was wonderful and bitter sweet and also two days after I had a meltdown and another screaming match but this time he was able to shut out the bad and discuss what the trigger was and help me through the tough time. I see his pain daily when he sees my sadness. As others have said he now has to live with the results of the choices he made and it's not easy being him. I on the other hand need to be strong for me not him. I have to find my happiness for me and I choose daily for it to include him to be 'us' again. Just like the beginning of the marriage, it's hard work then and especially now given the choices he made. But if you're BOTH working together hard for a better together way of life, time helps build a stronger bond between the two of you! It's a choice both have to make and it takes time, compassion from both parties and a true commitment just like it took in the very beginning of the relationship! Much love and hugs as each of us make our way back to a better way to live!
Theresa,
DeleteThanks so much for sharing that experience. What you describe is pretty much what all of us have gone through. It feels like it will never end. It feels hopeless. But we're moving along, inch by inch, even when we can't see it. I'm glad you're finding a "better way to live."
Elle
DeleteI share because of you and your family of warriors have saved me from myself through the sharing of all the pain and ways of coping that may not work for all but together as a group that feels these emotions, I think it's the best place anyone can turn for validation of feelings and positive ways to deal with such pain! I thank you for all of these things!
So its been months since I posted. My H began reading my posts and I decided to stop as some of my comments he took wrong and caused issues. For the most part things are getting better but they got worse before they started to get better. After I outed OW to her family- husband and yes her adult kids (whether any or all of you think that was wrong for me to do or not, I don't know but I did- I had reasons for it also and her BH thanked me for doing it). So the reality of the A came out.....the very little amount he previously told me turned out to be initial PA back about a decade ago, he called it off, they still stayed in touch (because of her kids sport), after the sport was over, they remained secret friends (EA) and then in mid-late 2012 went physical again. He figured 10-15 times of sexual encounters with her. She said at least 20. He tried to kill himself again as the info piled out from his previously deleted messages on his phone that I retrieved. So, since then (April) we have been trying to rebuild. I still didn't feel like I had all the info. I asked questions still. He went to IC again.....his IC made some comments that literally sent me off the deep end. He was to find out how he could have gotten to the point where it was okay in his mind to completely destroy me and our relationship without a thought. I continued IC and we both went to someone together. I have come to realize what happened in his life to make it possible for this to happen. I was the one who had to tell the therapist what I thought and I discussed it with him. I am disillusioned with therapists. His IC spent 5 months (weekly) just finding out how the week went...what a money grab. I literally had a couple of aha moments where things started to come together. He needs to work on himself and the things in his life that led him to be capable of this kind of damage-both to his life and mine. He is trying.
ReplyDeleteSo, things were getting better. OW decided on my 50th birthday to give me a call to say "I just wanted to make sure you heard my voice today" She was annoyed that I didn't answer during the morning (we were on a plane to Atlantic City) so she left a message and continually tried to reach me live. About 2 weeks after that, she called me again and said "just because of the vindictive person you are" I hung up. She called my H, he didn't answer the first 5 times she rang, but then answered from being fed up (or at least this is what he tells me as I wasn't present and I asked him not to talk to her-but he did). She told him that she is going to make sure I feel her pain because she lost a daughter. Her daughter is getting married and she isn't invited. She believes that I am responsible for that as I told her daughter......her husband would have told her daughter anyway....I know this because he told me that he has been telling both of their kids for years that he believed that she was having an A....he would have told them.....I am sure he probably showed them her messages to my H that I provided for him as well as the pictures of my H's hand on her bare ass. So apparently she believes that my h and I had a laugh over the pictures.....yep, I think its hilarious that I found pictures of my H's hand on another woman bare ass- hilarious......worst day of my life hilarious.
Anyway, they screamed at each other for a while apparently. She said she is going to make sure I find out exactly what kind of person he is etc. I called him, he hung up on her and he told me about the call (assuming this is true and not another of his lies). So I said, if there was anything else he needed to tell me, he better come clean. So he said, he remembered recently that there were more parks involved in their meetings and once in a hotel (and I asked that question just the week before) and she was probably right with the 20 times and he was low. I freaked out at him of course....the hotel-she paid for as she was staying there for after her Christmas party and invited him. He admitted he knew he was meeting her there the day prior and that he was looking forward to it. I made him tell me what hotel and what other parks. I was re-traumatized all over again and have new mind movies now. He doesn't seem to be able to come up with anymore info until there is a real threat of me finding out.
ReplyDeleteI contacted the police to start an incident report and told them I would follow through if she contacted me again.
So, last week (a month after the last communication), she emailed me 8 times. Her messages. They started with "Just a reminder to never come between a mother and her kids" I responded with a F Off, you did it to yourself, she responded back with hatred. I told her I had contacted the police and to not contact me again. She threatened to tell them that my H took pictures of her without her knowledge (something I don't believe he can get in trouble for but am a little worried about) and then she said that we deserve each other because of the way we play with other peoples lives. Then after a few more tirades, she sent one many hours later saying " I can't wait for Christmas, can you" We took this to mean that she is planning on trying something at Christmas...maybe just and email who knows. She used her work email for 7 of the emails and I previously told her I would go to her employer as she used their number to talk to my H for hours and they met during her work hours (my husband got off at 2-3 and she worked until 5 at least). My H and I decided we would follow through with the police report if she contacted us again. Question- should I follow through now or wait....should I advise her employer about her actions while she is suppose to be working and her using their email address to harass? What are your thoughts on the Christmas comments? Any advise or opinions would be appreciated.
Lizzy
DeleteMy h and I filed a police report together with photocopies of all the many texts and emails including the threats that Facebook was not the only way to contact me with 'truth'. The fact that she is even thinking of revenge for Christmas makes me shiver remembering the terror I felt when I received her threats while my h was out of town. Once the judge signed the order she spent her night in jail, I slowly began to feel safe. Even though she continued to drive by our house for weeks. So yes my advice is follow up with the police and stand your ground for your own safety and peace of mind! Some of the ow are truly out of their right mind! Many hugs from someone who has worn your shoes!
Hi Lizzie,
DeleteI am so sorry for the nightmare this woman has created for you. Please know that you were absolutely right to tell her husband. He deserved to know. SHE is the one responsible for this, not you. SHE made the choice. You simply alerted others to her choice. The fact that she's blaming you is simply more evidence that she's one messed up person.
I think Theresa is right, though I have no idea how the police process works. Save every piece of evidence that she's harassing you. Document the phone calls. I agree that her comment re. Christmas is chilling. Who knows what she's capable of. She's having to deal with the consequences of her choices and she's not to happy about that. Well, welcome to adult life, OW.
I wouldn't say anything more to her except, if you/your husband haven't already, stress that you are to have absolutely NO contact going forward. Do NOT respond to e-mails. Do NOT answer phone calls. Block her number. Don't give her any attention at all. And then show what you have to the police and see what they can do about it.
Again Lizzie, I'm so sorry. Re. your husband reading on this site: I think that's really unfair. When you've found a place where you can get support and guidance, he should be happy for that. God knows, you need it.
Re. therapy: Yes, there are some out there who aren't so good. But it also requires a willing participant. A therapist can't "make" someone spill their deepest feelings. If your husband was willing to sit, week after week, and simply talk about what happened that week, then he's at least partly to blame for the fact that nothing much got accomplished. There's also a period of time, of course, during which trust is established. Something to think about anyway.
Thanks. Theresa, sorry you had to go through this too. Day by day. Overtime the phone rings, I worry that its her.
DeleteElle, we have blocked her on FB, her number in our cells, her emails now (she changed one) and I didn't think she was stupid enough to use her work email to harass someone but apparently she is. When she calls, she changes the phone to caller id unknown so the phone can't pick it up to block the call coming through. I have several clients that call as unknown so I have to pick it up. I have been hanging up as soon as I hear her voice. She usually gets the first sentence out before I recognize it as her unfortunately.
I have saved all the texts, Facebook messages and emails and am keeping a record of the calls now (since my birthday). I even have pictures of the incoming calls on my phone and kept the phone bills as additional confirmation.
Regarding therapy, I have spoken to my husband regarding taking some leadership in what he wants to accomplish. He is not good at that, he has been just taking her lead and telling her what I have asked from him. When he says I need to know how and why he got to this, she just keeps telling him that there will be several reasons and they never go further. He has some serious childhood issues that he needs to deal with and have contributed to his feelings of not measuring up and needing validation from others. I feel like the conversations between him and I have been more helpful then the therapists...this is his second. I believe a therapist should be able to navigate better then either. Our MC has been better at that but possibly because I have been present and know where I want to navigate.
Not sure why my replies didn't make it, I posted several days ago, but I will try to remember what I said. Theresa, sorry to hear you had the same problems I am having with crazy OW. My H has been receiving hang up calls again, not sure what we can do about it as they show as unknown.
DeleteElle, my H and I both agreed that we would avoid any contact with her at all costs. Problem is, when she calls, she changes her phone to unknown so our phones don't pick up the blocked number. He is not answering any calls that show unknown. I have many clients who call as unknown so I will continue to answer the calls, however, I should be able to recognize her voice pretty quick now, since she keeps contacting me and I will hang up immediately. We have blocked all the email addresses we know of hers also. I don't know if that will be sufficient or make her angrier. Who knows.
My H has apparently discontinued reading here but I am not sure I believe him. My H isn't good at managing what needs to be done. He felt the therapist should be directing him where he needs to go. I have told him that he needs to direct her into the direction he wants to discuss but he just can't do it. When we both go, we have far better results. When my H asked his IC to start working on why he did what he did -he has asked several times apparently, all she says is- it will be many reasons and doesn't start to explore any. When he asked her about his childhood traumas etc, she just says, yes it will have played a role and then they go back to what he did during the week. After 5 months of weekly $180 per hour appointments, I lost my cool about it. She has said numerous things that set me off....including that I talk about his A too much (when I have recorded questions for weeks and not said a word for weeks to avoid talking about IT all the time).....I got angry. When she said "I don't mean to minimize her pain but"......I lost it. We have agreed that we should go together. Its very sad that I, someone who is completely untrained, was able to ask enough questions, listen to enough information, do enough research to figure out what took place....yes I have a bit of an advantage as I have been living with him and can see some things from our life together but it just seemed like a complete waste of thousands of dollars. Two different therapists also.
Hi Lizzie,
DeleteWhenever a thread gets over 200 comments, my blogging platform won't publish them so they only show up when I delete earlier comments in order to make room. Sorry about that. It's an annoying glitch that I can't do anything about. You'll notice that I created a Part 11 threat because this one is pretty much full.
Anyway...there are, unfortunately, some lousy therapists out there. My thinking is that if your husband doesn't feel as though there's a good connection within three visits, then move on. And comments like "don't want to minimize her pain but..." tells me she hasn't a clue how to support someone re. betrayal/cheating.
Nonetheless, you sound like you've got a good handle on this and are creating positive boundaries for yourself. When you can get this lunatic OW out of your lives, I think things will improve dramatically. Soon, I hope.
Oh my Lizzie, what a roller coaster for you. If I was in your shoes I would probably follow through with the police report and tell them everything, including about the pictures. I think that would be very much a he said/she said situation and if you/he are upfront about it, then it looks better than her accusations later. I would be concerned about the Christmas comment as it almost sounds like a threat for something more than just additional contact. I'm not sure I'd approach her employer, at least until after talking over the situation with the police. That could really set her over the edge and it sounds like she's starting to feel like she has nothing to lose with her actions towards you and there's a very fair chance the police may contact her employer depending on how thorough they are with the investigation. Good luck.
ReplyDeleteGood points re. her employer. I'm not sure I'd go to them either. Would see what police suggested.
DeleteAfter talking with my H, it would appear (assuming he is telling the truth) that he tried to stop numerous times and she went crazy on him, including calling him names etc. He said she would go crazy texting him stuff and then a couple of hours later, she would be all apologetic and tell him how much she loves him etc. Seeing how she is harassing me, I think I believe it. Also, in the deleted texts, I could see some where she was frustrated that he wan't answering his phone or her texts and was avoiding meeting with her. I knew her a decade ago and she has always been nuts....too bad my husband couldn't see what almost everyone else we jointly knew saw in her. My H is so worried about Christmas, its affecting his mood. He is worried all the time and checking over his shoulder etc. It seems to be me she is after some kind of revenge from though.
DeleteI don't believe he can get in trouble for the pictures-even though he took them without her consent. I did some research and it appears that you are considered to be forfeiting your privacy when you are being intimate in the middle of the day in a public park or parking lot....sexual or otherwise. Being inside a car doesn't change that fact. So, I could have hired a PI and they would have been able to take pictures, a kid in the park could have taken a picture of them together and so could a pervy old guy sitting on a park bench. No faces are shown and the pictures only show his hand on her partially nude ass......nothing more. H told me that when they had it out on the phone she asked about the pictures and he said he doesn't remember even taking them.....then she says "you two must have gotten a real laugh out of them" yep...I thought they were hysterical....I got a kick out of seeing my H's hand on another woman's bare ass. She is certifiable IMHO. I think if and when we decide to go to the police to follow through, I will see what the police say about her employer and approach them after seeing what the police say. My H is in a bad place because he is worried about what her plans are. Unfortunately, a part of me sees this as possibly being worried about what else I will find out, not just her ruling Christmas. I guess that feeling is justified since he has not been forthcoming with information until I discover more on my own....although recently he did disclose a little more info (but only after he knew OW was going to try to tell me more info). My life really sucks now. I love my H and our life right now is better however, the past and what he has done is eating away at me AND him bring crazy into our lives makes me very resentful.
DeleteThanks for the comments. My preference would be to not have to do either and just get on with my life. She doesn't seem to want to go away. My H is concerned about what her plans are for Christmas. A few of his comments have bothered me however. He has said he is worried about her sending me lies. I tell him that I know she is capable of telling all lies so what is there to worry about. Our plan is to not look at anything she sends or hang up if she calls. I too am concerned that she is planning on taking it to a new level but I don't know what that would be. I told him if he has nothing else to hide then there is nothing to be concerned about me finding out. He says he is worried that she will get a pile of lies through to me and I won't believe that they are lies. I don't know if thats true or that there is more she can prove to me that will upset me. I sure hope he is telling the truth as I don't think I could take anymore to be honest. Its probably a good idea to talk to the police and get their take on everything including the employer situation. Since the emails are from there, they may need to talk to them but I think their initial reaction is just to go visit and talk to her. My H says he will take whatever is coming his way due to the pictures. They are literally pictures of just his hand on someones bare ass, pants/undies partially pulled down....no faces. I have tried to read on the repercussions of it, and it appears that all privacy is forfeited when you are doing something (even having sex) in a public place and in a car in broad daylight in a public place is considered a public place. The car does not make it private. Without her knowledge is the part the bothers me however, the forfeiting of privacy would also mean that someone outside the car could be taking pictures and you can't do anything about it because you are doing it in a public place. Also, he didn't distribute them anywhere, he deleted them on his phone and forgot that they are auto saved to his computer (where I found them). So I think he is okay with that and quite frankly, maybe I don't care if he get in trouble for that....serves him right for doing it and that seems to be his thinking. She also admitted to me that she sent him pictures of her in her bra...unfortunately I don't have that in writing. I am hoping she is bluffing but I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteWow - when your brain is totally fried by betrayal it is really hard to get even simple concepts. If I take steps to heal myself then the ability to feel my husbands pain will come as a byproduct. So I should really do healing things for me and stop crappy actions that make me more fearful and hurt for my own sake. Also, if we are both working really working in the relationship, time will be on our side. THANK YOU Theresa!!!! Your post really helped make this clear for me! Thank goodness for this site and all the hard earned experience and wisdom here. Somedays it is just so exhausting and confusing!!!
ReplyDeletePhoenix - hang in there, we are stronger than we realize and we can be kind to ourselves. Around 3 months we were having more hopeful and better days, but they would be punctuated with some really terrible days that were very discouraging. I am thinking of you.
Thank you all - love and support
Becky
Block her! Block the hell out of her. You never need to see or hear another message from her again. Let technology silence her for you. It won't stop her from showing up face to face if she can find you but at least that means she has to work harder to be a pain in your ass.
ReplyDeleteI am sitting in our bed watching my H sleep. I don't know the last time I slept like everything is fine so I guess I envy him. Today was a good day. The first good day in weeks. H has taken it upon himself to start using the GPS on his phone to show me where he is at random times during the day. He says to ease my mind...and it does.
ReplyDeleteSo why do I go from feeling almost ok to sitting here smoking...I am not a smoker...and wondering what in the hell I am still doing here. I am so lost and so alone. When does this get better? When do I get to have my life back?
Rae, I can so relate. My husband escaped constantly into sleep, whereas I struggled to sleep at all. Depression manifests itself in opposite ways for us. I lose my appetite, he comfort eats. I can't sleep, he sleeps every moment he can.
DeleteOur counsellor told us that when things start to go back into a somewhat normal routine, it can be really hard to deal with. Even though normal is what we've longed for! At least for me, normal feels dangerous, because everything seemed normal and my husband was living a double life and I didn't know it.
I wish I could give you a specific timeline as to when you feel like you get your life back. I find that's fluid, there's some days I feel like I have, and some days when I wake and think, "How is this my life?!" Although it's slowly getting less often as time goes by. I know time feels like a four-letter word right now. Lots of hugs. You're not alone.
Rae,
DeleteFirst off...the day will come when you do feel better and hopeful and you're not going to want smoker's breath and potential lung cancer to get in the way of your new joy. So put out the cigarette.
Second, the timeline for healing is different for all of us...but, I would suggest, longer than any of us ever imagined. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Just keep doing your work, focusing on your healing and trusting that each day brings you a bit closer to the point when you feel that this is behind you. Let him do his work.
This IS your life...it just sucks right now. But when it stops sucking you'll realize how strong you are and how smart you are. In the meantime, as Churchill said, when you're going through hell, keep going.
I cried today strike that sobbed.. first time in months ... 7 mo out. Guess im just having a day of feeling the pain. I so badly dont want to be stuck! This too shall pass.
ReplyDeleteAm I an odd ball for not wanting to know any details 5 weeks after D-day, only one week since the non contact was finalized? I do know more 'places' and general information than he even knows I know, but no real details at all. I see that this helps many heal and although I WANT to know, I'm already ready to move on and am afraid it will create more for me to worry over and not less. Will this cause me problems as time goes on I wonder.
ReplyDeleteAnna,
DeleteWe each get to decide what we want/need to know. I don't think you're an oddball at all. I got to a point where I made the choice to NOT know more than I did. I realized it wouldn't help and would likely hurt my healing. You might want to know more as time goes on or you might be content with what you do know. Ultimately all we really NEED to know is that our spouse cheated.
I don't know what I'm supposed to think or feel today. My husband and I had a date night Friday night. We were just finishing up eating dinner and were talking. I was looking at my phone as my mom had just texted something about our son and he had pulled his phone out to look at a text. When I asked him to read what my mom had sent, he had his phone facing away from me. I said "why do you have your phone tilted away from me, who is it?" He said it was one of his employees and he didn't tilt it away on purpose, but when I asked him to show me who it was, he flipped out. He told me I know it aggravates him when I don't believe him. I told he gave up his right to get aggravated about asking to see his phone when he cheated on me and told him I was done, to take me home. We fought in the truck the whole way home. He was insistent that he has nothing to hide and he is not talking to her at all. When we got home, he told me to get out, he was dropping me off, but not staying to keep fighting. I refused to get out of the truck and told him I wasn't doing this anymore, if he really isn't talking to her, then he would know that it was his stupid pride that ruined us because any trust I might have been rebuilding in him was just ripped away from me. I got a lot of things off of my chest that have been building for a while and he sat there and just cried and listened. Finally, I got out of the truck. He drove halfway out of the driveway and backed up and just sat out there. I went out once, to tell him a few more things that popped into my head about his actions that evening and then I came in and went to bed. I just don't have the emotional energy for this anymore. He came in after a while and turned a song on he wanted me to hear "even though it probably doesn't mean anything now" and left the room. The song was something about looking past pain and blame to the love left behind, I'm not sure I got it all because in all honesty, it pissed me off. Easy for him to say to look past the pain. I went out to the living room where he was laying on the couch and laid out my boundaries and my thoughts. He cried about how selfish he has been, he said most of the time it does not bother him at all when I look at his phone or ask him who was on it and he doesn't know why it did this time. We talked for a long time about the affair, the other woman, the baby, on and on. I don't know why I believe him or felt as settled as I did that evening, other than I again laid out my boundaries and was also able to listen to him think out loud about the effect his actions have had. We spent the weekend together and for the most part, it was really good. We went to my sister in law's house and on the long drive there, he brought up the subject of the affair and how he could have gotten to the point that he did and the type of man he wants to be in the future. I don't know why I'm leaning towards believing him, but I am.
ReplyDeleteAm I crazy? He's lied so many times (4 ddays before the full and final disclosure) and his actions Friday night screamed suspicion to me. Is it possible that he just reverted to old behaviors for a time? I'm sitting here today trying to decide if there's something I'm not seeing because I don't want to or if I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill because I'm scared of missing the signs like I did before. He seems truly sorry and like I said, has been bringing it up himself because he knows I'm bothered, which is something he normally never does, we don't typically talk about the affair or the baby unless I broach the subject or we're in counseling. He's also said a few times how sorry he is because he knows he's ruined any progress I've made in my ability to believe him or trust him and that's a price he has to pay for being stupid and selfish that evening. I'm just so confused. I really do believe in us and our ability to heal, but again, I also never could have imagined my husband would be one that could carry on a deception of this nature for so long and continue to do so even after the first dday. How do you tell the difference between intuition and fear? I feel like my intuition is saying that he's telling the truth and just screwed up, but I'm also freaking out that I'm just burying my head in the sand...
ReplyDeleteHow is intuition different than fear? Thank-you for asking: http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2015/10/fear-vs-intuition.html
DeleteIn the early days, you're in shock and dealing with the trauma. It can be really, really hard. You get to lay out the ground rules and he either follows them or not. But if he won't, then you get to determine the consequences. This is about your healing. It's not about controlling him, it's about respecting your own boundaries and healing. I don't doubt that it feels humiliating to him. But that's nothing to the humiliation you feel. He needs to work a bit harder on empathy and little less on self-pity. He created this situation and, at any point, there's the door he can walk through. But if he's choosing to stay, then he's got some tough work ahead to help you get through this.
" I feel like my intuition is saying that he's telling the truth and just screwed up, but I'm also freaking out that I'm just burying my head in the sand... "
DeleteMe too. It is so hard. The roller coaster of trust and doubt is so --- I don't even know. Nothing else like it though. Take care of yourself.
Awesome rant, CF.
ReplyDeleteYes, agreed!!
ReplyDelete